Seanad debates

Wednesday, 21 February 2007

10:30 am

Photo of Camillus GlynnCamillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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In recent years several calls have been made to ban the Red Bull mixer. A report in one of today's national newspapers clearly indicates why this should be done. That soft drink clearly contains mood-altering components, which cause violent behaviour. Serious unprovoked attacks have been committed against other individuals as a result of it. I ask all Members of the House to support the call for a ban on this mixer. It is banned in a number of other countries and I do not see why we should not do so.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I commiserate with you, a Chathaoirligh, because like Senator Quinn when I hear the M50 being impotently rattled by vote-hungry politicians from various sides, I can smell an election in the air.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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Senator Norris is a politician.

Photo of Martin ManserghMartin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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Does Trinity not like elections?

Senators:

You pulled down the tricolour in Trinity.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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On the issue of the tricolour in Trinity, yesterday the question of the rugby match at Croke Park was raised. Without going over that too much, all national anthems can be contentious. The British is a comparatively mild one. The tunes are usually fairly nice. Our own could do with being reviewed, including the line "Le gunnaí-scréach faoi lámhach na bpiléar". It comforts me that most people do not speak Irish and do not know what they are singing.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I have a question for the Leader. Perhaps we should have some slight discussion on the matter. Having listened to Micheál Ó Muircheartaigh, I found him judicious in everything he said.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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He was reasonable, decent, understanding and sophisticated.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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He is from Kerry.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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When the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Mr. Hain, visits Croke Park it would have been gracious for him to lay a wreath at the memorial, which would have healed many wounds. I am very sorry he decided not to do it.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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We cannot debate the matter on the Order of Business.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I am sure the Cathaoirleach will pity me as I pitied him. Last week I was compelled by logic to agree with Senator Mansergh. Today I am discharged from that duty because of the utter rubbish he spoke about an attempt to get Ireland to intervene in Britain's internal affairs to get it to shore up prejudice simply because it was a Roman Catholic prejudice.

Photo of Martin ManserghMartin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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Is Northern Ireland the internal affairs?

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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The British Cabinet gave the answer to that one when it clearly stated it is not possible to have a little bit of discrimination. It would have been much better had Senator Mansergh asked, as I now ask the Leader, to consider this situation in Ireland, where despite his paeans of the past 25 years, his Government needed to be pushed, kicking and screaming, into this area. Let us have a discussion of the motion in my name asking us to revise the exemption by all the churches, including mine — the Church of Ireland — and the Roman Catholic Church, from the operations of the equality legislation. That was done before the publication of the Ferns Report. We now know what the leaders of the church were doing in moving priests around so they could continue to molest children——

Photo of Martin ManserghMartin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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Come off it.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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——while they were simultaneously getting exemption from equality legislation to which they were not entitled. It is a disgrace and the English are 100% right.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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If time is available before the Easter recess, I ask the Leader to have a discussion on the work of the British-Irish Inter-Parliamentary Body, of which she is a member and of which I am a sub-member, in particular the issue of free travel for pensioners from Britain when they return home here. From 2 April free travel will be available throughout the island of Ireland thanks to the work of the Government.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Not on the M50 though.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Some 430,000 Irish people over 65 years of age will be entitled to travel free up to Northern Ireland and those from Northern Ireland will be able to travel free to the South. It will represent a great joining of people. It is a very commendable day in the history of the State to have free travel between North and South. It is a step forward and I commend the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Brennan, on introducing the scheme. I ask that the British-Irish Inter-Parliamentary Body discuss extending free travel to the Irish in Britain when they return here during the summer.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Transport, Deputy Cullen, to the House to discuss the inadequate service signage on dual carriageways and motorways, which is costing us jobs. Business has plummeted in Rochfordbridge, Kinegad and other small towns and villages bypassed by motorways because of inadequate signposting of services in those locations. In Rochfordbridge 17 jobs have been lost and I understand more jobs are under threat in filling stations, restaurants and other stores because of the inadequate signposting of services. On the Continent we see much more adequate signposting of the services available in the smaller towns and villages. We have long stretches of motorway without service stations. A debate would go some way to address the issue. I will give another example. When people leave an airport or a ferry port they do not know where to go.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has very adequately made the case for a debate.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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Areas in the midlands are inadequately signposted. Longford, Mullingar and Athlone are very prominent towns in the midlands.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Athlone is all right. The Senator should stay away from there — it is Councillor Nicky McFadden's area.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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They are not adequately signposted.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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We cannot go around the country.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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There may be the odd photograph of a prominent politician.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Nicky is on the Senator's path.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I have no difficulty in finding my way home on the N4. I ask the Leader to initiate a debate on climate change. Ten years ago introducing this issue in the House would not have been seen as having any great consequence. However, it is now to the forefront as it relates to the global future. It is appropriate that the Cathaoirleach welcomed representatives of various US state legislatures earlier. I commend the states in the United States which, despite the best efforts of the White House, have adopted many of the Kyoto principles in their own states to the point where I hope the US will come to its senses and realise its citizens too form part of the human race.

At the weekend the Taoiseach made commitments on a number of initiatives in the area of environmental protection. They cut across many Departments, including the Departments of Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources. I am involved in preparing a report on humanitarian disasters. From talking to the various lead agencies, including the Red Cross, it is clear that natural disasters are increasingly occurring in the Asia-Pacific area. These are very much related to climate change and indicate how, in a sense, we are probably destroying our own planet. In that context and in the context of the Taoiseach's initiative at the weekend, I ask the Leader to have a debate on the matter.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Some months ago the Government announced its intention to increase the number of High Court, Circuit Court and District Court judges. I believe it was proposed to add two to the High Court and three or four in the District Court, but nothing happened. We now have the Courts and Court Officers (Amendment) Bill, which allows for an additional four judges in the High Court, three in the Circuit Court and up to six in the District Court. They may not all be appointed. As we know all courts have long waiting lists. We all accept the principle that justice delayed is justice denied and the matter is urgent. No appointments can be made without the passage of this legislation. When will this House take the Bill?

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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It is being taken in the Dáil this week.

11:00 am

Photo of John Gerard HanafinJohn Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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I support Senator Mansergh's call for a debate. It is quite reasonable that we are tolerant and understanding in this House. It is also reasonable that people who would hold a liberal view would be tolerant and reasonable with those who hold a contrary view. I would like to see liberalism redefined as intolerant of other people's views. There is fear because of the situation mentioned by Senator Mansergh where a particular institution formed with a particular ethos is being requested or expected to do something which is against that ethos. The same applies to the Crisis Pregnancy Agency. No group which stands for life should be asked to give information on abortion referral. It is contrary to what it believes.

We in this House should defend the right of any group with an honest and clear mandate and ethos to uphold that ethos and not have forced upon it by liberal thinking a tolerance of other people's views which are in the opposite direction. This would be the opposite of what liberalism should be. This morning I heard again an attack on the church. We all know the history of the church and its difficulties through the millennia, but the fact that the Holy Spirit is in the church is proof that it has survived.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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We do not want a debate on the church.

Photo of John Gerard HanafinJohn Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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Being tolerant is something——

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Senator have a question?

Photo of John Gerard HanafinJohn Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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I have. I would like to see in the debate people who are tolerant being allowed to express their own ethos and views without being forced to change them.

Photo of John Paul PhelanJohn Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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I agree with Senator Mooney's request for a debate on climate change. I had a discussion yesterday with somebody involved in the bio-fuel sector. The Government is committed to achieving a target of 5.5% mix in all petroleum products of bioethenol. We will have to double our production of grain and grain products if we are to meet that target. There has been no concerted effort so far in any of the initiatives announced by Government towards ensuring we do that. I call for a debate on that issue as soon as possible.

I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Agriculture and Food to come to the House for a debate on the issue of farm inspections because I am inundated with queries on and problems with the inspection area. I realise it is part of the reform of the Common Agricultural Policy and the widespread changes that have taken place in the different schemes that affect agriculture. Farmers are presented with 1,500 questions and boxes must be ticked. Two people arrive at the farmyard gate in the morning and are on the farm for the whole day watching the farmer and the practices that take place and, in some cases perhaps, the cows being milked. All parties constantly speak about the need to reduce bureaucracy in agriculture. This is the biggest load of bureaucracy I have seen introduced in my time in agriculture. I call for a debate with a view to reducing it and its impact on farming and promoting the development of agriculture and the entrance of young people into the industry.

Photo of Jim WalshJim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I refer again to the report of the Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights in respect of collusion on various atrocities which occurred here during the Troubles of the past 30 years and the involvement of the Northern Ireland Office, the Secretary of State and the British Government without whom these events would not have occurred. I call for a debate on that report. Since I asked previously for a debate, we have had the report of the Police Ombudsman of Northern Ireland, Nuala O'Loan, which clearly identified the collusion that took place in the 1990s and up to the current decade, both in the RUC and the PSNI.

The issue needs to be addressed. There is a point of view that we should move on from these events but if one speaks to the victims of these atrocities, their wounds are as raw as when these terrible atrocities occurred. State terrorism cannot be allowed in any way to go without some form of acknowledgment, apology and redress to the victims involved. I join Senator Leyden in asking if the British Irish Interparliamentary Body might be a forum within which this issue could be explored and some pressure brought to bear on the British to give some modicum of co-operation in this area. I note what the Taoiseach said that until such time as we have the report of Mr. Patrick MacEntee, SC, it would be inopportune to debate the issue, but we should move on it on a number of fronts.

I endorse the call by Senator Hanafin for a debate, not on the issue raised by Senator Mansergh which is outside our jurisdiction, but on the Crisis Pregnancy Agency and its modus operandi. During the past six months I, and I am sure every other Senator, have received reports and complaints from voluntary groups working hard in that area. These groups are finding it difficult simply because the Crisis Pregnancy Agency wishes them to deviate from their ethos. That is unacceptable and I agree fully with Senator Hanafin. We should have a debate on the activities of the Crisis Pregnancy Agency.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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I ask that the Minister for Transport come to the House to explain what exactly the taxpayers and commuters are getting when he speaks about buying out the toll bridge? It appears to me they are being charged on the double, having been ripped off for many years. To put this in context and given that he intends to hand over €620 million, yesterday the Carlow-Dublin train service was overcrowded. On the return journey at 4.20 p.m. or 4.30 p.m., the train was so crowded that people were turned back and had to wait an extra two hours to get a train. That is the reality of the public train service. I appreciate there are more trains on the Waterford-Dublin line than in the past but there has not been a corresponding upgrading of the quality and number of carriages and there are no catering facilities on some of the services.

The original bypass earmarked for Carlow 20 years ago is now the outer relief road because the bypass was never built. We are now planning to build an outer relief road instead. Some of the money could be put to that use. This is the same Minister who presided over the electronic voting fiasco, the airport authorities debt-ridden——

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Senator have a question?

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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I have. Today we learned of the taxi signs that were written in braille. First, the braille was incorrect and, second, it caused the windows to jam in taxis and they are now being taken away.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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What is the Senator's question?

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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It is important that the Minister comes to the House for a debate. On the issue of traffic and road safety——

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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We cannot answer those questions today but when the Minister comes to the House, he can answer them.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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Recently in Carlow the drugs squad has been disbanded because the traffic corps is being strengthened. Nobody in the House ever wished to see the traffic corps strengthened at the expense of other services.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has made his point adequately for a debate.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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We need to ask the Minister to ensure the traffic corps is not strengthened at the expense of other services.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Mansergh made a significant and thoughtful contribution to the issue of respecting people's conscientious position on State issues and also to ensure that agencies with a particular ethos would not be coerced into providing a service which runs counter to that ethos. I thought it reasonable that he would take the position in Britain as an example because there is a parallel there. I cannot see how anybody would suggest this was interfering in the internal affairs of another country. Does that mean that if we raise an issue on Iraq or Tibet or any other country, we are interfering in the internal affairs of that country as well? We all know why he raised that issue, namely, because a parallel position is developing in Ireland. It would be quite serious for us if we decided on coercing the Crisis Pregnancy Agency, which is rooted in a particular ethos, to provide a service but, worse still, to threaten it with the withdrawal of funding if it does not provide that service. It is time to debate this issue, not what happened in Britain.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Taxpayers' money must not be used to promote a particular ethos.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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Tony Blair felt especially uneasy during the debate in Britain but what happened was he left his contribution too late. Senator Mansergh has done a service to Ireland by raising the issue at this time and giving this Chamber an opportunity of debating the matter soon.

Photo of John Gerard HanafinJohn Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Let there be open exemptions for the churches here as well while we are at it.

Photo of Martin ManserghMartin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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That is the secular totalitarianism.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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No, it is not. Rubbish.

Photo of Martin ManserghMartin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, it is.

Mary Henry (Independent)
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I support Senator Mansergh's call for a debate on the issue because there is an enormous amount of misinformation about what the Crisis Pregnancy Agency is suggesting to other agencies.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Maurice Hayes wishes to speak next.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I cannot keep up.

Maurice Hayes (Independent)
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I am sorry for upstaging the Leader. It might help Members to consider the relevance of what Senator Mansergh was talking about if I remind them that the situation already exists in Northern Ireland.

Photo of Martin ManserghMartin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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Exactly.

Maurice Hayes (Independent)
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The law has already been changed in Northern Ireland. We may have an interest, therefore, through cross-Border bodies. I have considerable sympathy for the point raised by Senator Mansergh. I believe a conscience clause, such as that which exists for abortion and other issues, should be introduced. It would not deny people the opportunity to adopt because they could use other agencies. However, if particular agencies have a particular ethos, it is not unreasonable to accommodate them.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Does anyone else wish to speak?

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Is it safe to get up?

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader to reply.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brian Hayes again raised the issue of the proposed referendum. I repeat what I said on the matter last week, which was that the Senator's comments were sensible. If we can get a wording which is not just agreeable to all the parties but agreed by them, we can move on that. My opinion is that we should not rush the matter either. It is too important and complex to engage with it in a rushed way. I do not think the Government believes we should rush the matter. It should be agreed among the parties, the wording should be produced and the legislation should be prepared. The 28th amendment is sufficiently important to warrant sufficient time being given to all these stages before it becomes a national issue and the debate follows.

I will endeavour to see if a more definitive viewpoint is held on the matter. It is hugely important. We all saw the furore which occurred last May and the crowds outside Leinster House who were very concerned about what was happening but who essentially did not know what they were marching about. This must be rectified. We must close that loophole, but if we do so, I agree with Senator Brian Hayes's argument. It is one of those issues on which the Senator, many members of other parties and I find common cause in respect of doing it in a measured, proper, debatable and agreeable way before arriving at a decision at God knows what time. I repeat what I said last week and hope I will be able to give Senator Brian Hayes a more definitive view.

The Senator also spoke about the Government U-turns on a commitment to the people of Cork in respect of Cork Airport and tolling, respectively. He said we were engaging in U-turns. The Cork U-turn, for want of a better word, has been debated very firmly by people within and outside this House. It makes the point about rushed legislation because we all remember how this was rushed legislation. It appeared to me that rash promises were made. The two going together do not make for decent legislation.

Senator Quinn asked when the pharmaceutical regulation Bill would be introduced. It is on the A list for printing and publication this term so that will happen. The question of whether there will be time for a debate on the issue is another matter. It is a very important Bill about which the pharmaceutical unions and owners are very concerned. They want to see it coming. Senator Quinn spoke about generic drugs, how the other drugs are getting more prominence and the fact that generic drugs, which are hugely interesting and positive for people, are not getting a proper airing. I will get back to Senator Quinn on the pharmaceutical regulation Bill when it is printed and published.

Senator McCarthy spoke about the legal protection of children. He subscribes to the view held by Senator Brian Hayes that the referendum should not be rushed. We had examples in the early 1980s of everyone succumbing to high-pressure lobbying and partial or implicit threats. All Governments succumbed to them and ran with a referendum which still has reverberations.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Exactly.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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These reverberations are painful and wrong and resulted from the fact that the referendum was rushed. Legislation guides lives for a long period. Therefore, rushing it is not to anyone's advantage.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I accept that the points of view expressed here on behalf of the two main parties are felt and expressed very sincerely. It is important that they should be recognised as such.

Like me, Senator Mansergh praised the Minister for Transport, Deputy Cullen, this morning. I thought he was quite emphatic. Senator Mansergh raised an important issue, which is that all of us in both Houses of the Oireachtas subscribe to pluralism. It is a very strong tenet of our public life. If we subscribe to it, we should respect both civil and religious liberties. It is manifestly not right if pluralism involves intolerance because pluralism, by its very nature, should not be intolerant. Senator Mansergh raised the matter of Catholic adoption agencies in the UK and how a feature allowing freedom of conscience in respect of this issue and the other issue, which he did not mention but which has been raised by other people, should be introduced.

Senator Finucane spoke about magnetic fields and mobile phone masts. Another report will be produced on the likely or unlikely health effects of magnetic fields and mobile phone masts. I am sure the Cathaoirleach has noticed that an increasing number of areas in Ireland have very bad mobile phone services because the masts are not in place. We cannot have it every way. I attended a meeting at which people complained they could not get proper mobile phone services, but they still gave out about another mast coming forward.

Senator Finucane also raised the more salient point about inspectors making certain decisions which are then overturned by An Bord Pleanála. In the three cases mentioned by Senator Finucane, the inspector turned down the applications while An Bord Pleanála allowed them. It is a feature of the legislation governing An Bord Pleanála that the decision is at the behest of the board rather than the individual inspector. He or she advises and the board decides. This is my understanding because I have often queried it.

Senator Glynn raised the matter of Red Bull mixer and how it contains mood-altering components, which is quite serious. He asked all of us to support a ban on the stocking of Red Bull mixer.

Senator Norris said that all national anthems have a trifle of upset about them. He praised Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh, which we would all do, and spoke about laying the wreath. I believe this would be a futile gesture which would not be proper. Senator Norris also spoke about equality legislation and the need to include in it by way of amendment people who are left out of the earlier equality legislation and groupings.

Senator Leyden rightly hailed the free travel scheme among the 32 counties and spoke about how it will be a commendable day when it comes in on 2 April. He also said we should raise at the upcoming British-Irish Interparliamentary Body whether it could work the other way as well, which is a good point.

Senator Bannon spoke about inadequate road signage. He is correct in saying that Rochfordbridge has no signage showing the location of restaurants and other facilities. These are the usual signs we have all come to decipher and understand very well. It is a matter for the National Roads Authority and I have raised the matter with it and am awaiting a response.

Senator Bannon spoke about Longford and Mullingar. We are very happy about Athlone. A certain lady in Athlone who is not Fianna Fáil is on the Senator's track if he moves into her area.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I do not think we will discuss the next election now.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Read any signs.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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She has her own lorry or whatever one calls it. Senator Mooney spoke about climate change. If we have time in the forthcoming weeks — not next week — we should look for a debate on that. The Senator praised the US states that have gone against President Bush and brought in their own measures in support of the Kyoto Protocol. He also stated there is an increasing frequency of natural disasters.

Senator Coghlan wants to know when the Courts and Court Officers (Amendment) Bill will come to the House. It is scheduled to be taken within the next two weeks. He can tell that to his friends in high places.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Leader would not know anybody down there.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader should speak on the Order of Business.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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He has a family connection. Senator Hanafin spoke about tolerance. He praised Senator Mansergh's point of view. He referred in particular to the Crisis Pregnancy Agency. He is very concerned about it and called for a debate on the matter.

Senator John Paul Phelan called for a debate on climate change. He also raised the matter of farm inspections. Requests about that issue are pouring in to all of us from ordinary farmers, some of whom may be members of farming organisations. A tinge of bitterness appears to have crept in about the increasing bureaucracy required to fit in with those inspections. It would be useful if we were to invite the Minister, Deputy Coughlan, to discuss the matter.

Senator Jim Walsh sought a debate on a report on collusion. He stated it would be tackled on a number of fronts but it would be useful to raise the matter at the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body. He also called for a debate on the Crisis Pregnancy Agency.

Senator Browne asked that the Minister for Transport would be invited to the House for a discussion on crowded trains and the upgrading of carriages. He stated Carlow has one relief road but an outer relief road is now required.

The Senator attributed electronic voting to the Minister, Deputy Cullen. I do not need to remind him a previous Minister, not of Senator Browne's party but of mine, was responsible for the introduction of electronic voting. It is often attributed to the Minister, Deputy Cullen, even though he was not responsible. Neither was he responsible for the introduction of the airports management legislation which is now on his doorstep.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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He is responsible for taxi signs.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Browne also inquired why the drugs squad was disbanded at the expense of the traffic corps. I do not know. It is a little strange. I do not see the connection between these issues. I may discuss the matter in private with the Senator.

I agree with Senator Ó Murchú's call for the need to respect people's consciences. We should not coerce anyone into taking a particular stance or action.

Senator Henry referred to the Crisis Pregnancy Agency. Senator Maurice Hayes agreed with Senator Mansergh's point about adoption and the conscience clause, given the approach in operation in Northern Ireland where abortion is in line with UK legislation.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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No, it is not.

Maurice Hayes (Independent)
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Abortion is in line with this jurisdiction but adoption is in line with the UK.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The conscience clause is the matter to which Senator Maurice Hayes referred. The adoption legislation which is to be introduced in the UK——

Maurice Hayes (Independent)
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It is in Northern Ireland.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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——is in operation in Northern Ireland. We have had a most useful debate about tolerance and the need to take care with referenda and provide adequate time to discuss them.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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And to be tolerant about running mates.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Order of Business agreed to.