Seanad debates
Thursday, 7 December 2006
Order of Business
10:30 am
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, a referral motion whereby No. 17, a motion concerning certain sections of the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act 1996 relating to powers of detention, amendment of forensic evidence and rearrest, which will cease to be in operation unless a resolution is passed by each House of the Oireachtas, will be referred to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights for consideration, the decision on the referral to be taken without debate; No. 2, the Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006 — Committee Stage, to be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than 1 p.m.; No. 3, the Health (Nursing Homes)(Amendment) Bill 2006 — Second Stage, to be taken at 1 p.m. and to conclude not later than 4 p.m., with contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes, those of other Senators not to exceed ten minutes and the Minister to be called on to reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage; and No. 4, the European Communities Bill 2006 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken at 4 p.m. and to conclude not later than 6 p.m., with contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 12 minutes, those of other Senators not to exceed eight minutes and the Minister to be called on to reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Why is No. 25, a motion in the name of the Leader dealing with the Curtin affair, still on the Order Paper? Is it linked to the apparent failure of the Government to accept the former judge's resignation from the Bench? I understand the matter has been resolved, yet the motion remains on the Order Paper. Given that the Joint Committee on Article 35.4.1° of the Constitution and Section 39 of the Courts of Justice Act 1924 has concluded its work and the Government has allegedly accepted the former judge's resignation, why is this the case? Will the Leader give her views on the matter? Perhaps the House could dispose of the motion today if an opportunity arises.
I also understand the joint committee gave a commitment to make a report to the House concerning future legislation that may be required in this area. Will a report issue to the House?
Why have a budget given that most of the detail of yesterday's budget was leaked and appeared in the newspapers last Sunday? I welcome the introduction of a small increase in mortgage interest relief for first-time buyers, even if it amounts to only €30 per week for a couple, most of which will be eaten up by increases in interest rates. The big loser from the budget was the Tánaiste. Despite all his huffing and puffing, stamp duty was not changed. We were led up a certain garden path to find that nothing had changed.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The House debated the Budget Statement last night.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste, the most unpopular party leader, is the big loser from the budget. His comments in September caused the Dublin housing market to stall. The House was informed as late as last week that some relief would be forthcoming in the budget but stamp duty did not change. We will watch developments with great interest.
On 20 December, 6,000 heavy goods vehicles could descend on the M50 motorway with the result that for ten hours, an additional 60 HGVs per hour will travel on the most congested road in Dublin. Does the Leader agree that, given the gridlock on the M50, it is lunacy to increase the M50 toll charge by 10 cent from €1.80 to €1.90? The Government should get real. It is already mayhem on the roads. This morning in Lucan, one car accident caused gridlock in west Dublin and two weeks ago it was caused by a hole in the road as commuters tried to get home. A stop should be put to increasing toll charges on the M50 so that hard-pressed commuters are given a break.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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Will the Leader respond to an issue discussed earlier in the week which concerned the Minister of State, Deputy Tim O'Malley? I do not wish to speak about the personal aspect. If he made a mistake, he can deal with that mistake. However, I am interested in raising the issue which was under discussion. Other Members, including the Leader, were of the opinion it would be important to have a debate before Christmas on the issue of psychological and psychiatric support structures and access levels for children as this is an important issue. We thought that after the budget would be a good time to have that debate. Will the Leader invite the Minister of State to the House? I will not call for his resignation. I met him and told him what I thought of what he said and I am ready to move on. The issue has been opened up for discussion. The Leader stated that the controversy has at least brought public attention to an issue that was being ignored and which needs to be discussed.
With reference to the matter raised by Senator Brian Hayes, I raised this matter in the House following the resignation of Judge Curtin and in fairness to the committee, Senator Brian Hayes was incorrect with regard to the committee's commitment. What happened on the day was that Senator Hayes, I and others asked that the committee which had done such work in treading through an almost impossible series of connections between personalities, legislation, common law and the Constitution, had developed significant experience which needs to be capitalised upon. I would like the committee to report to the House, not on that case in particular as it has given us its report on that, but to give its opinion on how similar cases might be dealt with in the future. I would like the House to have a discussion on the draft legislation which was attached to report No. 5 of the All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution which dealt with the unfortunate business concerning another Supreme Court judge some years ago.
I stated during the Curtin affair that the Oireachtas did not have its house in order to deal with such situations and they will happen again. Legislation should be enacted. The committee spent two years considering this issue. The members know more about it than anybody, it would be interesting to hear of the pitfalls and they could give a general view of the legislation drafted.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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Nobody wants to talk about traffic yet again but it is an issue. I use the wonderfully useful Fermoy bypass so often that I purchased the capacity to pass through by electronic means without any delay. I now know that if I was to take my car around the country to the various toll systems, I would need three other devices stuck on my windscreen. I can imagine a truck driver travelling the country who needs one sticker on his windscreen for Fermoy, another for the M50, another for the M1 and another for the M4. It is the simplest thing in the world and we do not appear to be able even to do that right. We now have four different electronic systems. It is ridiculous. People travelling on the roads have enough problems without this.
I refer to another issue related to our incapacity to do anything properly. Why are our telephone bills among the world's highest? It is because our capacity to regulate is so inept. If the regulators do not have enough power, where is the amending legislation? They have the powers and will not use them. There is the ridiculous situation where the energy regulator apparently forced the ESB to have a bigger price increase than it requested. This should be sorted out once and for all. The job of the regulator is to protect the consumer, not the service provider. I am really tired of energy regulators and telecommunications regulators who seem to regard their first duty as being to look after the technological and other concerns of the service provider. This is worse than a State monopoly because it is a de facto private monopoly. I have asked the Leader on previous occasions for a debate on how we do regulation in this country and I now ask her yet again.
I am disappointed, as many other Members may be, with the extraordinarily provincial reporting by The Irish Times on a very good debate on defamation in this House yesterday. Apart from the sacred Senator from Trinity College behind me, no Member of the Opposition was reported in The Irish Times. There was not a single comment from a single Member of the Opposition. I find this astonishing and disappointing.
Contrary to a report in the Sunday Independent of last Sunday, there is an engineer in the Oireachtas and he is standing up here.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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Many, including myself, fulminate about law and order. Yesterday in Cork, the family of a murdered girl showed extraordinary generosity in their response to the family of the man who murdered her. We all could reflect on this and choose our words a little more carefully when discussing some of these horrendous crimes. If the family of a victim can be as forgiving as that, perhaps all of us in the system, besides our otherwise correct concern about crime, could learn a little bit about the fact that forgiveness is also a part of moving on in life.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps the Leader could make time available for Committee, Report and Final Stages of the Registration of Wills Bill 2005. This is a Private Members' Bill proposed by me to regulate and register wills. Despite the best efforts of the Law Society of Ireland to try to thwart the actions of the Oireachtas and prevent the passage of this legislation, I hope the Leader will make time available to ensure that the society's best efforts come to nought and that the Bill will be brought in. There are vested interests at work and the many rip-offs associated with wills are a scandal. The Law Society of Ireland stands over the scandal and its members involved in the perpetration of those.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should be careful in what he says.
Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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As a member of the Joint Committee on Article 35.4.1° of the Constitution and Section 39 of the Courts of Justice Act 1924, I wish to clarify two points. The commitment to produce a report for the Dáil and Seanad was on the basis of the entire proceedings continuing. There was no commitment beyond that. It was not regarded as necessary. The committee issued an internal report on the progress of the committee over the period and the number of meetings. I agree with the point made that the committee was in uncharted waters. We have the benefit of the High Court and the Supreme Court experience, of section 3 provisions and other aspects. As the Chairman of the committee correctly said on many occasions, the exercise will be beneficial in future in that a roadmap has been created as to what might happen. What we learned about the court experiences would stand in good stead if this were ever to happen again, which it may not.
I fully agree with Senator Brian Hayes's comments on the M50. I was amazed this morning to see a schedule of new rates which will operate from 1 January 2007. Recent statements on transport made by Fine Gael indicated that even now at this stage, there is merit in the Government paying €20 million annually and lifting the barriers and removing this toll regime. After all, if there is a commitment to buy out the M50 tolling regime in 2008 for €1 billion, surely the Government can countenance spending €20 million during 2007 to buy it out then.
Camillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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Will the Leader arrange a debate in the new year on the mental health services? I have called for such a debate on a number of occasions. On a recent visit to the health committee in the House of Commons, my colleagues Senators Henry and Browne and I were told about the Appleby report. It would be interesting to debate it.
On a number of occasions when I have visited Britain, I am disappointed that many retail outlets and hotels refuse to take the euro even though Britain is in the EU. We are, however, in good company because some of those places also refuse to take the Scottish pound.
Camillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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I would welcome a visit to the House by the Minister for Foreign Affairs. This issue should be addressed. It is ludicrous that one of the major players in the EU will not accept the basic currency.
David Norris (Independent)
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I regret if some of my colleagues on this side of the House feel slighted but, as Senator Ross told me, I am very pleased I was mentioned. Perhaps it was because I was the only one who opposed the defamation legislation. It is very good this House should reflect a dissenting voice. The situation in regard to the press ombudsman is a laugh. The Insurance Ombudsman was funded by the insurance industry and every time it did not like what she said, it pulled the plug on the cheque. That is what will happen again.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is yesterday's business. The debate on the Defamation Bill has been adjourned. The Senator can make that point during the debate.
David Norris (Independent)
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Absolutely. Can I tell the Cathaoirleach today's news?
David Norris (Independent)
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Many Members on both sides of the House told me they were delighted I said what I did and that they would have liked to have done so but they are terrified of the press. That is what we are heading into.
I call for a debate on landmines perhaps in the context of the Middle East because 1 million landmines were dropped in Lebanon in the past 72 hours. No. 25, motion 28, on the Order Paper in the names of all my colleagues on the Independent benches seeks to outlaw landmines and it is based on a very powerful submission by Mr. Tony D'Costa of Pax Christi to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. I am happy to withdraw that motion if the Government and the Opposition parties wish to put together a composite one.
My colleague, Senator Mooney, is very interested in this issue and attended the same meeting. I would like the Leader to consider the motion in the name of the Independent Senators to see if it is possible for the Government to put together, and pass, an all-party one. I believe the Government would be sympathetic to this.
There is a further worry that, inadvertently, public moneys may be invested in American companies engaged in manufacturing these obscene instruments of death and misery. They are not even military instruments. Mr. D'Costa told us that 98% of the casualties are civilian. That tells us one simple thing, namely, that they have no military application and that they are instruments of terror and mutilation. After a war is over, unfortunate children pick them up and are mutilated and killed. All parties should stand up against this filthy and barbarous practice.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I support Senator O'Toole's call in respect of the work and objectives of the Curtin committee. While legislation is being prepared, it is worth pointing out that in the state of Massachusetts, there is a commission which comprises nine members — three from the judiciary, three from the legal profession and three from the public. It deals with instances where the judiciary brings its profession into disrepute or where issues arise which could affect the confidence of the public in the judicial system. It is a model which could well be reflected in legislation. The sooner that legislation is in place, the better.
Will the Leader arrange a debate next week on the report by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Women's Rights on the bombing of Kay's Tavern and other atrocities in the 1970s which was sought by a number of Members last week? At that time I suggested we might await the publication of the McEntee report into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings but I understand that further time has been requested to finalise that report which means it may not be completed until January or February. That is too long to leave this issue unaddressed. It behoves the Members of these Houses to continue to exert pressure on the British Government to meet its obligations and responsibilities in this regard.
The report of the joint committee clearly indicated the extent of the collusion and we owe it to the families and the State to keep this a live issue with which we must deal. The issue will not go away or be forgotten. I would say to Members who are members of the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body that it is a forum in which this issue can be raised and highlighted. Hopefully, we will be able to make advances which have not been made in the past.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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In regard to psychological and psychiatric services, as raised by Senator O'Toole, we all know this is an area in which there is, to say the least, a huge shortfall. We have not made the appointments to the various positions. People in counties with long waiting lists have no one to see as the psychiatrist or whoever is not available. We have exported too many members of these professions and have not brought them back. They had to go abroad and they have stayed there. We would want to face up to this issue or we will have more problems. I would welcome a debate on it.
As next week is the last sitting week before Christmas, will the Leader give us an indication of the programme and the sitting arrangements?
11:00 am
Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I support my friend and colleague, Senator Norris, who correctly said the Pax Christi submission was made to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs earlier this week. Like him and many Members on both sides of the House, I have taken a long-standing interest in the landmine issue. The Government, through its overseas development aid programme, has contributed significantly to landmine clearance, especially in Mozambique. It is a very expensive operation but we can take pride in the fact that there is an acknowledgement, as Senator Norris so eloquently put it, of the terror and mutilation these awful cluster bombs cause.
I have written to the Leader and suggested that the motion in the names of Senator Norris and the other Independent Senators could be incorporated into a Government one and that it might be debated in Government time. There is nothing contentious in it and I suggest it supports Government policy. There may be some slight variations in Senator Norris's motion from that which I will suggest to the Leader because I believe I am right in saying his motion is based primarily on the Pax Christi recommendations put before the joint committee. I hope the Leader will respond favourably to that suggestion.
This week the Egyptian President, HosniMubarack, is making his first official visit to Ireland, which will be welcomed. Since the President has a great deal of influence in the region, the Minister for Foreign Affairs might ask him to encourage the Prime Minister of Sudan to allow a United Nations force into Darfur. Perhaps the Leader will convey the sentiments of this House in that regard to the Minister. Senator Norris spoke about the mutilation of children but, as wespeak children, women and many other innocent people are dying in the deserts of Darfur. It is an outrageous international scandal and the more pressure put on the Prime Minister of Sudan to allow a United Nations force into Darfur, the better. As the Egyptian President is in Ireland, it is an opportune time for the Leader to convey our sentiments to the Minister for Foreign Affairs.
Sheila Terry (Fine Gael)
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For some years, I and other Members on both sides have asked for recognition of women who were forced to give up work due to the marriage ban. When they come to pensionable age they should be given the qualified adult payment as of right in their own name.
Sheila Terry (Fine Gael)
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In an effort to be positive for a change, I acknowledge that the Minister has at last recognised this. However, I am concerned that women must wait until next September for this recognition. I cannot understand why, now that the Ministers for Finance and Social and Family Affairs have acknowledged at long last that women should be recognised in this way, they must wait until next September to be given the payment in their own right. Will the Leader inquire whether it can be done more speedily?
I am disappointed with the budget provisions on child care services. Parents of young and schoolgoing children are disappointed that no meaningful help is being provided. The small increase in child benefit will not do anything to help with child care services which cost between €1,000 and €1,800 a month.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has made her point. We had a debate on that last night.
Sheila Terry (Fine Gael)
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We spend a lot of time here discussing parents' experience in this regard. It must be recognised nothing meaningful has been done to address the problem.
John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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I support my colleagues' call for a debate on landmines. We have seen the terrible effects of landmines in particular areas many decades after wars have ceased there. It is time for landmines, like chemical and biological weapons, to become unacceptable and be banned.
The budget was an excellent, fair and balanced budget which looked after all sectors. However, it demonstrates clearly a split in the Mullingar accord. While Fine Gael has welcomed the tax reduction of the higher rate to 41%, the Labour Party has come out against it. There is a clear dichotomy in the Opposition.
John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ryan rightly mentioned media coverage of debate in this House and that every Member is entitled to coverage. The Irish Times journalist in the House gives adequate and full coverage to all, but the newspaper management is slow to print some of what is covered and only prints what it wants.
Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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Will the Leader arrange a debate for next week with the Minister of State at the Department of Finance on the decentralisation programme? This is the third anniversary of one of the most significant political announcements of the past decade, made in the Budget Statement of December 2003 by the then Minister of Finance, Mr. McCreevy, that 10,000 civil servants would be transferred throughout the country. This was deemed the ultimate bonanza for rural and provincial Ireland, but unfortunately it has not happened. We need to debate the decentralisation strategy, the spatial strategy and that whole area of public policy. We need to hear from the Minister of State at the Department of Finance with responsibility for this area whether the project has gone entirely off the rails or whether it will be fully implemented. We need a full debate on the matter before the Christmas recess and I ask the Leader to arrange that.
Maurice Hayes (Independent)
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I too support a composite motion and the agreement of the House on issues such as cluster bombs and landmines. With regard to reporting of business in the House, I have no doubt the resident reporter has provided a balanced account. I would not go further than that. As any of us who write for the newspapers know, the coverage provided simply exemplifies the eternal battle that goes on between columnists, writers and sub-editors who have a job to decide how to fill the page and who are not willing to depart from that. I doubt there is anything sinister in it.
I have enormous respect for Senator Walsh and his concern arising from the bombing of Kay's Tavern. However, I wonder whether this is the right time to deal with that issue. There is an enormous problem with regard to how we deal with memory and the past in a deeply fractured society after a period in which awful things were done on both sides. It might cause further difficulty if we got ourselves into a position of demanding that every stone be turned over on one side and not on the other. If the Senator was a Protestant farmer in south Armagh, he would also think terrorism was a matter of international terrorism coming across the Border aimed at him. One of the concerns I have about the report is that it does not put the bombing into context, as if the events came of the blue. We need to include that context.
There is also a weakness in the report. It appears to me that the views of lobby groups were established and accepted as if evidence or gospel fact. We are at a difficult and sensitive period in the North as parties are edging closer. If one party thought we in this House were ganging up to throw stones at one side and closing our eyes to what was going on on the other side, it could only do damage. I appeal to the House to postpone that debate and perhaps to include it in a wider debate about how we deal with memory and the sins of the past.
John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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I agree with the sentiments expressed by Senator Maurice Hayes. Will the Leader seek the explanation sought by Senator Terry for the delay in the implementation of the changes with regard to the qualified adult payment for people affected mainly by the marriage bar? Senators on all sides of the House have received numerous representations from people affected by the issue and would like an explanation.
Another issue I wish to raise is the level of personal indebtedness. Many commentators and consumer watchdogs have raised this relevant issue in advance of Christmas. Will the Leader raise the matter of the continuous issuing by financial institutions of unsolicited loan offerings of up to €10,000 if a person signs on the dotted line? At this time of year, this is a temptation many people cannot avoid. We need some regulation in this area.
In his contribution in the House yesterday, the Minister of State with responsibility for the decentralisation programme, Deputy Parlon, devoted one paragraph to the issue. Three years ago this week, he was very clear on what he said on the issue. He said that if the Government did not deliver on decentralisation within three years, it did not deserve to be re-elected. Clearly, the decentralisation programme is a shambles and has not been delivered within the three-year timeframe promised. It would be appropriate for the Minister of State to come and explain in detail where matters stand.
Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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I seldom disagree with Senator Maurice Hayes. Apart from the great work he has done with regard to North-South relationships, we all have great respect for the energy and wisdom he has brought to bear on these issues. On the other hand, any comments Senator Walsh has made on the Northern issue and his involvement in various committees have always been balanced.
I do not suggest where or when the debate should take place, but there is one issue on which we need to bring to bear our concerns. There is a major difference between collusion by a sovereign government against a friendly government and some act undertaken by a paramilitary group. While we have agreed that a part of the process, as we have discussed it in the past, would have to take account of the need to forgive, one must put oneself in the position of the families who suffered as a result of those terrible bombings, which the report stated involved collusion by Britain. The fact the British Government is a sovereign government changes the scenario completely. For that reason, we should not lump this with other acts of terrorism on this island.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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With regard to Senator Brian Hayes's first point on No. 25, the Curtin motion, I understand it will be removed from the Order Paper in time. Senator Finucane also referred to the issue. There is a roadmap with regard to what the committee examined and discovered, and that roadmap will be extremely useful for the future should judicial misdemeanours arise which would require action.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Why cannot the motion be removed immediately?
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I expect it will be removed from the Order Paper after Christmas.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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We will not be debating the matter. It is a Government matter. There will not be a report on the motion in the House. The committee would have reported had the matter drawn to a conclusion but it did not do so, and, therefore, the committee could not issue a report. I expect that is the situation.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator also referred to the Tánaiste being derailed with regard to the measures for first-time buyers announced in the budget. That is not so. I recommend that Members read page 16 of The Irish Times——
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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——in which the Tánaiste has been badly misquoted. He stated stamp duty reform would stand to be addressed in the next Government and would be on the——
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Exhibit A. Tell them that in Rathgar and Ranelagh.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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He said with a straight face it would be delivered.
Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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It is like the three card trick in Listowel: now you see it, now you don't.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Order, please. The Leader, without interruption.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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When it suits certain people, The Irish Times is quoted lovingly, and when it does not suit, it is not quoted. There we are.
Senator Hayes also asked about toll charges, which are to increase from €1.80 to €1.90. He suggested it would have been better if the price had been left unchanged.
Senator O'Toole referred to the debate on the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Tim O'Malley. The debate is really about youth mental services, including psychological and psychiatric services, and what was discussed in the House on Tuesday. We are endeavouring to arrange a debate on the issue. I do not know if we will able to have that debate next week but we should have it in the first week after the recess. The Minister of State has expressed himself very interested in attending and having a worthwhile debate.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State has apologised for what he accepts were ill-judged remarks. As I said yesterday, if the furore which was occasioned, rightly so, means there is a focus on these matters, that in itself is positive.
Senator Ryan asked whether it would be preferable to have a uniform system of electronic tolls throughout the country rather than moving from one toll jurisdiction to another. One can get an Eazy Pass slip on the M50 which allows drivers to keep going — one must pay for it, of course — and there are other systems in place for other tolls. I remember that Senator Ryan and Senator Ormonde used to meet on the Naas Road. I do not know if they are still doing that, but the thought struck me when the Senator was talking about the roads issue.
Senator Ryan remarked there had been a good debate on defamation, which is the case. I did not speak in the debate but I listened and thought it was a good, balanced debate. The Senator thought more speakers should be quoted on what they had said in the debate.
Senator Ryan also referred to a remarkable event, which I also thought remarkable when I saw it on television. This involved Sheola Keaney's parents, who went to the parents of the young man who had committed the crime and embraced them. I thought it was a real act of Christian charity.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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If we put ourselves in that position, how could anyone do that? It was a remarkable act and a headline for others. That beautiful young woman was their only child.
Senator Leyden asked for time to be made available for the Committee and Report Stages of the Registration of Wills Bill 2005. I am glad to tell the Senator the Bill will be taken in Fianna Fáil Private Members' time next week. I hope the Senator will line up his speakers.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Finucane referred to the Curtin committee and the roadmap. He also stated there was still merit in buying out the toll roads.
Senator Glynn raised the issue of mental health services. The House had decided — I realise the Senator was about his business in London — that we would have a debate on youth mental services, following from the matter concerning the Minister of State, Deputy Tim O'Malley.
The Senator expressed his annoyance that the UK does not accept the euro. It is a bad situation. Every time one goes to Britain, one has to change money but one then finds it in a pocket ten months later. However, the UK did not adopt the euro. It has a sovereign government and we cannot make it do this. Most proper hotels and shops will change money.
Senator Norris referred to landmines, an issue on which Senator Mooney has spoken publicly as well as speaking privately to me. We will be able to compose a composite motion, which will embrace the ideas of Pax Christi and others. I hope we can have the debate in Government time next term. It will be a worthy debate.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Jim Walsh told the House of the Massachusetts committee, composed of lay people and legal officers, which has called to order those who have committed legal misdeeds. The Senator also referred to the report on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, which is still under consideration. He asked if the matter could be debated in the House. I do not have autonomy of action on such matters. I would have to go back to the Taoiseach's office on a matter such as that.
Senator Coghlan referred to the psychological and psychiatric services. He also asked what Bills and debates would be taken next week. Last week my offices sent an e-mail to the various group leaders advising them of the Bills to be debated this week and next week. Perhaps the Senator could obtain this information from Senator Brian Hayes.
The business for next week is as follows. All Stages of the Appropriation Bill and the Social Welfare Bill will come before the House, and we must move the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission (Amendment) Bill or there will be no money to run the Houses. We will also deal with Committee and Report Stages of the European Communities Bill; Second Stage (Resumed) and perhaps further Stages of the Defamation Bill; Report and Final Stages of the Local Government (Business Improvement Districts) Bill; and the Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill. It is hoped to give one hour to Senator Coghlan's Private Members' Bill next week, although I do yet have a time for that.
In January I will endeavour to take whatever other Private Members' Bills are on the Order Paper. I have put forward a Bill with regard to women who have been trafficked, which the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has said he will take, and Senator Brian Hayes has put forward a Bill with regard to fines. We will try to get through Private Members' business systematically.
Senator Terry raised the issue of women who have been forced to give up work. She asked why they must wait until September for the scheme to begin and why it could not begin earlier, perhaps in April. I will put that question to the Minister. The Senator also asked about child care services. I recommend reading the Minister for Social and Family Affairs's excellent budget factsheet in which he has outlined comprehensive information with regard to children, carers and parents. Senator Hanafin wished to be associated with the call for a debate on the landmine issue.
Senator Bradford referred to decentralisation, which we discussed with the Minister earlier in this session. I am aware the Senator has European duties. The Minister of State, Deputy Parlon, addressed the issue briefly last night. The Senator is incorrect to suggest that the decentralisation programme has been entirely unsuccessful, as there have been significant successes in Tullamore, Athlone, Longford and Roscommon. Public servants are pouring into the areas to which jobs are being decentralised. While the programme may not be 100% successful, there is no point in denying that it has had some success. It was incorrect of Senator Bradford to suggest — I took down what he said — that the programme has gone "entirely off the rails".
Maurice CumminsMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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If the former Minister, Charlie McCreevy, had not set out his stall in good and bold headlines, we would not have got anywhere. The process of decentralisation would not even have started. I resent the suggestion made by some people — I do not refer to Senator Bradford or anybody else in this House — that all life is in Dublin. There is a great deal of wisdom, good life, proper decision-making and a decent standard of living outside the Pale.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Maurice Hayes wanted to be associated with the proposal to agree a composite motion on the issue of landmines. He paid a great tribute to the thoughts and comments of Senator Jim Walsh. This is a sensitive matter. I agree with Senator Hayes that the manner in which we deal with the memory of historical matters is hugely important. We know that Senator Walsh is one of the most eminent Members of this House. It is no mark against him that Senator Hayes addressed the matter in a very sensitive fashion. The Seanad is lucky to benefit from the voices of Senators Walsh and Hayes. I ask Senator Maurice Hayes not to blush too much when I say that he brings great dignity, knowledge and professionalism to his job.
Senator John Paul Phelan picked up on the point made by Senator Terry about decentralisation.
Senator Ó Murchú said that he is inclined to agree with Senator Jim Walsh in the debate about foreign and sovereign Governments.