Seanad debates
Wednesday, 11 October 2006
Order of Business (Resumed)
3:00 pm
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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I hope the welcome will not be too warm tonight in Lansdowne Road.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should speak on the Order of Business.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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I wonder about the capacity of a centralised government to do anything right. I do not wish to politicise this matter too much by referring to the Government. Senator Brian Hayes referred to one issue and Senator O'Toole referred to another.
I wish to refer to a small matter. The magnificent new Fermoy bypass was recently opened. A little bit of fuss was created when some people said they would not pay the toll. Over the weekend I discovered that a major semi-State organisation, namely An Post, had instructed its drivers not to use the bypass. They were told to go through the villages of Watergrasshill, Rathcormac and Fermoy town with their huge, big juggernauts that haul mail from Dublin to Cork and further afield. They were told not to pay the €4.60 toll because An Post regarded it as too dear.
I wonder whether those in Government talk to each other. I would have thought it was the function of any public body to implement public policy. I understand public policy is in favour of tolling and if that is the case then at least public bodies like An Post should pay the tolls and not persecute the misfortunate people of Watergrasshill who have not had a truck through their village in about two and a half years but because of this cock-up and others are now being turned into a rat-run for heavy goods vehicles and loads of cars every morning and evening. I do not understand why this should happen. I call for a debate about——
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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Senator Norris thinks it is very funny. If he lived in Watergrasshill——
David Norris (Independent)
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I think it is parochial. Senator Ryan is always chiding us for talking about Dublin.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ryan should be allowed to speak without interruption.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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I do not think anybody would consider matters pertaining to An Post to be a matter of parochial interest. They are of enormous national interest. If An Post's policies are wrong then this is the place to deal with them. It is not the first time Senator Norris and I do not agree.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ryan should speak on the Order of Business and ignore interruptions.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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I do not wish to have a debate on Aer Lingus and its privatisation. Neither do I wish to have a debate on whether people with beards are more or less left wing, as the Sunday Independent suggested last Sunday.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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I wish to have a debate on the quality of advice the Government received. I would like a member of the Government to come to the House and tell us how he or she believes that in spite of the €30 million that was spent on advice, the company in question did not notice the possibility that Ryanair would be lurking to try and take over Aer Lingus. Was there a hint in the extraordinarily expensive advice received by the Government that this could have happened? The evidence last week was of chaos, confusion and near-panic for a time because no one had considered this possibility. I did not consider it, but I was not paid €30 million to advise the Government. Someone was paid €30 million and missed this possibility.
John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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The Government would pay the Senator to go away.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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If the Government paid me €30 million, I might go away. Other people were paid less and got into a great deal of trouble.
We have been promised new ethics legislation. I was going to make a little deal with the Government to the effect that we might leave the matter to the Government parties to discuss. Those of us on this side of the House have no problem with knowing between right and wrong, but the law is needed to tell people on the other side about the difference. We should probably leave the matter of dealing with the niceties to the people over there.
Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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The historical record does not show that.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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Not at all. We dragged legislation out of the Government against its wishes in 1992.
Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Senator want to talk about The Workers' Party angels?
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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As Senator Mansergh knows well, the same people who came to the Labour Party and offered it ethics legislation did not——
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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I do not know what The Workers' Party has to do with this matter.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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It became Democratic Left and then the Labour Party.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Order. The legislation will appear before the House and we will speak on it.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ryan on the Order of Business.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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The House's time will be taken up by dealing with ethics legislation, but none of us needs to know what is right or wrong. We have enough ethics legislation, but we need people who will admit that they know the difference between right and wrong. We do not need more ethics legislation. The Houses' time will be taken up. I was going to make an offer to the effect that we would stay out of the matter and let the Government parties debate it because they need to clear their consciences.
John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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I join with Senator Brian Hayes in wishing the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and everyone connected to the talks at St. Andrew's well and in hoping that the talks will lead to a permanent settlement. We have had false dawns, but we seem to be close to a final resolution. We must be encouraged by the facts that Dr. Paisley met the Archbishop of Armagh and that Mr. Adams said last night that Sinn Féin respected the rule of law. Whether it respected the rule of law previously is another debate, but I welcome Mr. Adams's statement. It would be appropriate for the Taoiseach to attend the House when the talks are over. Previously, he was generous with his time and reported to us on the progress made at summits.
On the radio this morning, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland made a point worth repeating, that is, if people complain about the education system, other services, rates and so on in their own country, one imagines that they would take the reins and run the systems themselves. It is easy to complain, but it is not as easy to find solutions. The solutions are in the hands of the people of Northern Ireland. It is to be hoped we will reach that point and have devolved government.
The Dáil is debating the probability of an Irish force going to the Lebanon on UN service. Under the triple lock mechanism, this is technically a matter for the Dáil, but there have been recent calls in this House for a debate on the situation in the Middle East. The Army has a proud tradition in Lebanon and, while it is a difficult area, it is good to see a contingent being sent there again. The matter could be discussed in the context of a wider debate on the Middle East or in isolation.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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In recent years, there is a precedent of that being done in the House.
Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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I wish to support Senator Ryan regarding the €30 million consultancy fee. We are employing more consultants in respect of opposing Ryanair, the cuckoo in the nest, through the European Union on competition grounds. Objectively, it is remarkable, having spent €30 million, that there was no forewarning of such an outcome.
Another issue which causes much concern, both outside and inside this House, is nursing home subvention. I have been amazed in recent times by the number of people who have approached me who find it very difficult to meet nursing home charges. It is worth bearing in mind that the last time there was a change in nursing home subvention rates was 2001. Since then there has been a substantial increase in nursing home charges. The overall amount of family members' money going into a house is no longer factored in, but what has happened surreptitiously, owing to the current nursing home charges, is that pension and nursing home subvention no longer come anywhere near matching the cost of nursing home charges. A significant gap exists at present and people find it very difficult to meet the increased charges.
I want to hear from the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, who has recently published legislation which does not factor in any increases in nursing home subvention rates, what is likely to happen in that regard and to recognise this. If the Minister came into this House, perhaps we could outline this area which is of concern to us all.
To get into a public hospital which caters for the elderly is almost impossible nowadays because the type of categories used by the case assessment unit mean one must be in a very critical condition, one must have had a stroke, one must be old, etc. One must fulfil all kinds of criteria before one is classified as eligible, yet beds are available in many of those hospitals. By stealth, people are being pushed into private nursing homes. That is the future direction and it is wrong.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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This House and the other House set up the Competition Authority, the chairman of which was appointed on 3 April 2006. The first challenge for the authority was the takeover by Topaz of Statoil and, for the sake of one day, the authority failed to carry out its statutory duties. This House should debate——
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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——the disgraceful approach by the Competition Authority in dealing with a file. Due to a lapse of one day, the authority could no longer arbitrate on the merits or demerits of the takeover, a merger which resulted in control over 124 petrol stations. It will affect prices and competition, yet an organisation which was established by this House——
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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Will Senator Leyden resume his old campaign?
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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It will be necessary, if that is what we are paying for.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Leyden, without interruption.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The authority's chairman, Mr. William Prasifka, and the other four members of the board should offer their resignation to the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin. They have failed dismally to carry out their statutory duties. What confidence can this House have in the Competition Authority when it comes to matter of Aer Lingus and Ryanair?
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I propose to the Leader that this House should have a debate on an organisation which we established by statute and which has failed us dismally. In this country, nobody resigns for anything.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I am referring to those who are appointed.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator's point is adequately made.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Can we congratulate Senator Leyden on that point?
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Many Senators are offering. We will have a debate.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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——in this country that public servants appointed by the Government resign when they make a mistake. In the circumstances, they should resign.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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There should be a debate in this House on the scurrilous situation where a virtual monopoly is allowed.
Shane Ross (Independent)
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I thank Senator Leyden for the cue. I was going to call on the Minister for Transport to come to the House to apologise for the Aer Lingus flotation but, as Senator Leyden said, resignation would probably be more appropriate in these circumstances. There is an unanswerable case for the Leader to talk to her less salubrious successor and ask him to come to the House, not just to apologise for the complete cock-up that has been made of the Aer Lingus flotation but to account for some of the events that occurred because nobody understands why they happened or what was the sequence of events that caused them to happen. It will be quite remarkable if we cannot get an explanation from the Minister why the Government sold a company at €2.20 per share only for the shares to be bought at €3.05 each a week later. It is an extraordinary situation and answers are required because this involves taxpayer's money. The Seanad could do the taxpayer a service by inviting the Minister to the House for a question and answer session about how and why this happened. Nobody in the country understands it. Senator O'Toole and Senator Ryan put their fingers on this. There is almost unanimity on all sides of the political spectrum that this flotation was botched in an inexcusable way. While they are an easy but justifiable target, there is also unanimity that the €30 million payment to advisers was outrageous. It was a straightforward robbery of people who did not understand they were being robbed.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Is the Senator seeking a debate? He has made his point adequately.
Shane Ross (Independent)
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Will the Leader ask the Minister for Transport why he is employing the same advisers who got him into this mess to advise him out of this mess?
Shane Ross (Independent)
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Why does he not sack them and at least employ someone else who will give him proper advice?
Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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I would welcome a debate on the report published yesterday by the ESRI on the horseracing industry. How much was based on research on course? People tend to forget this debate is not just about a sport but about an industry that produces live goods and services, employs thousands of people and in which most of the inputs are domestic. It is at least as important an employer as large companies such as Intel. I would like the matter to be discussed, especially as the net cost of the current tax break is less than €10 million and the strong suggestion is that when it comes up for review in 2008, the Government of the day might decide to do differently. It would be good to hear the degree to which Opposition parties propose to support the horseracing industry.
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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I support the call by Senator Brian Hayes on the Minister for Education and Science to come to the House to clarify the SSIA issue. The interest accruing on such accounts is being taken into account by local authorities and vocational education committees in assessing the income of parents of students seeking maintenance grants. As far back as April, people who had not finalised their applications for one reason or another were asked to project the interest that would accrue on their SSIAs prior to the decision of the local authority on their grants. There is no doubt the local authorities and VECs are being forced to assess SSIAs as part of the income within the guidelines for the means test on grants. It is a scandal. We realised two years ago that the then Minister for Education and Science intended to scrap all such grants for third level and we now know that this is a way of hitting back discreetly, as the Minister may think. I am fully supportive of Senator Brian Hayes's request that the Minister for Education and Science come to the House.
On a related issue——
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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I will be brief. In the past two or three years, the Houses of the Oireachtas have introduced two important Bills with regard to people with intellectual and physical disabilities. We were promised that all people with disabilities would be supported to the farthest possible extent. Unfortunately, this has not happened. In County Galway, parents are waiting for three years for an assessment for access to speech and language therapy.
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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In County Dublin, the wait is for five to ten years. All of this occurs despite the promise of resources and staff that would be made available. The kernel to all of this is——
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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——we do not have the professional staff to deliver the services we were told would be made available. After nine years of this Government, matters have become worse.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Many Senators are offering. To comply with the Standing Order, I ask Senators to be as brief as possible. Otherwise, I will not be able to facilitate them. I call Senator Morrissey.
Tom Morrissey (Progressive Democrats)
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Last week I called on the Leader to arrange a meeting with regard to the State Airports Act. The Minister for Transport should come to the House as a matter of urgency to discuss the State airports and aviation policy in view of the events of the past week. The implications for the State airports of the proposed takeover of Aer Lingus by Ryanair could be profound in that Ryanair has objected to Fingal County Council with regard to the second terminal at Dublin Airport on the basis that it believes the terminal to be too expensive. If Ryanair takes over Aer Lingus, it will put back the timeframe for the development of a terminal.
Members have raised an issue in the House over several years which is of concern to all in this country and which the Government has addressed, namely, insurance. Three to four years ago, we heard every week from the Opposition that the cost of insurance was rising and of the effects of this on household and business insurance. The cost is now falling at a tremendous rate. I am aware of one company whose premiums have dropped by 57% in the past two years. The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment should come to the House to discuss the final parts of the PIAB that remain to be dealt with.
Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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Yesterday was world mental health day. The House has had useful and valuable debates on issues around mental health. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on the issues around youth mental health, some of which are important and serious and merit the attention of the House. Much material is available on the issues, as the Leader knows.
My second question relates specifically to legislation, namely, the Defamation Bill and the Privacy Bill, which were published during the summer. It was my understanding the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was anxious to advance the Bills as soon as possible in this term. That no longer appears to be the case. Will the Leader clarify when the Bills will come before us? Will they be presented together or consecutively? It is my understanding that the Government sees these pieces of legislation as a pair and that one is effectively dependent upon or cohabiting with the other, so to speak. Will the Leader clarify that matter? I need to excuse myself from the House but I will listen to the answer on the monitor.
Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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I wish the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, every success in the talks towards securing a permanent settlement in the North of Ireland. There is no doubt that it will be a great day for Ireland and our Government if that can be achieved. It would be a golden opportunity if, on the Taoiseach's return, and presuming he can find time in his work schedule, he could address this House on those talks.
I support Senator O'Meara in seeking a discussion on youth mental health. I have had discussions with many people in the education sector on this issue. Given the changing fabric of society, we have significant problems, including stress on young people, so it would be a great opportunity if the House could discuss these matters.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Competition Authority, which is the public watchdog on competition matters, did not investigate the sale of Statoil. In that respect, it has utterly failed the public interest.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I hope Senator Leyden will support the call to bring the Competition Authority before the Join Committee on Enterprise and Small Business. The number of petrol stations is decreasing but this sale will lead to an even fewer number, thus providing motorists with less choice, less competition and, ultimately, higher prices. The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment should investigate this matter immediately and ensure that there will be no repeat of it so that the public interest will not suffer again. This episode does not inspire any confidence among consumers that there is a watchdog protecting their interests. Consumers have suffered and it looks like they will suffer more because there is no regard for them.
Eamon Scanlon (Fianna Fail)
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As regards Senator Brian Hayes's comments on the SSIAs, my understanding is that what is taken as reckonable income is the interest earned in the year one applies for the maintenance grant.
Eamon Scanlon (Fianna Fail)
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If one is talking about an SSIA account maturing in 2005, the interest earned would be about €200. That is the only income that is reckoned in education maintenance grant applications.
David Norris (Independent)
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I join with colleagues who have called for a debate on Aer Lingus. It seems quite extraordinary that a Government that promised us this would lead to competition has led us down an alley into which we will have a virtual monopoly. In addition, I understand that there are substantial funds — possibly in excess of €1 billion in cash — in Aer Lingus. Therefore, it is a really sweet deal for Mr. O'Leary as it is almost self-financing. Some of the advisers are people who also advised on the Eircom flotation. What concerns me in particular is that Mr. O'Leary is a clever man. One may not like what he does but he is certainly very shrewd. He is clearly setting out to alienate the workforce as much as he can. He is certainly not reaching out to them. In the weekend newspapers, he said he was going to slash jobs. He did not say "cutting"; he said "slashing". That is good management relations.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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We cannot have a discussion on the chief executive of Ryanair now.
David Norris (Independent)
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I support the call for a debate on that matter. I am concerned about the question of SSIAs. I agree with my colleagues, Senator Brian Hayes and Senator O'Toole, who have called for the Minister for Education and Science to attend the House. It would be a real disincentive if SSIAs were to be taken into consideration in terms of educational grants. It is a kind of Indian giving and it is not on. I am sure that Members on both sides of the House will remember senior Ministers giving assurances that there would not be this kind of chicanery and trickery. They said they would not try to claw back tax but if they are now trying to do so, we should know.
I also wish to seek a debate either on the situation in Darfur or, in the context of what Senator Dardis said, on the role of the United Nations peacekeeping missions. We have a disastrous situation in Darfur where, in the past week or two, 400 women have been raped. Villages are being bombed by Government forces in collaboration with the Janjaweed. Rape is being used as an instrument of policy. In addition, the African Union mission may be withdrawn, thus leaving a complete vacuum. These people are being left unprotected. This is a Rwandan-scale genocide waiting to happen. On this occasion, we cannot say we are unaware of it. We know only too well what is occurring.
A final point must be taken into account. How disgraceful the attitudes of various nations are that stepped up to the mark, in front of the television cameras, and pledged money for such situations, yet then welshed on those pledges. That is what has been happening in Darfur where we know people are starving. European and American politicians said they would give so many millions but they failed to deliver. They should be called to account.
John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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I join in the calls for a debate on Darfur, which is another case of genocide. We thought we would not see it happening again in this generation but we have already seen it in the former Yugoslavia and in Rwanda. We will see it again in Darfur. One could spend five hours driving across this country but it only takes five hours to fly to Darfur. It is important to bear in mind that the world is a global village and we should be debating these issues.
We are faced with the problem of nuclear proliferation with North Korea joining the nuclear nations and Iran about to do so. We have already seen terrorists use weapons of mass destruction, namely, aeroplanes filled with aviation fuel. There is no doubt that we are living in a more dangerous world but we in Ireland can and do contribute to ameliorating the situation.
I thank Senator Scanlon for providing us with the Department's clarification which was very worthwhile at the time.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Some people are still excluded. Does the Senator accept that fact? He is saying nothing.
John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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On the last point, it is appropriate for the Minister to attend the House. It certainly was not spelt out at the start, when the SSIAs were launched, that interest on those accounts would be taken into account when people were applying for third level grants. It is my understanding that in other areas people are losing social welfare entitlements because of interest earned on SSIAs, which is unacceptable. Clarification of that matter is required.
Senator Mansergh raised the issue of the ESRI report on the horseracing industry and I concur with most of what he said. I fully support the equine sector which is a major employer. It is also a major recreational product and I concur with the Senator's sentiments in that regard.
Will the Leader contact the Department of Education and Science or the Department of Transport with a view to obtaining clarification on the school bus transport system? In my area, a number of people in Kilkenny applied for a school bus ticket but a catchment boundary issue arose. They applied in June and the final verdict was given last week. They were told that they were within the catchment boundary but their application was now being treated as a late application. The buses are full so they will not get tickets for their children to travel to school by bus. We are talking about long distances so the situation is unacceptable. The Leader should obtain clarification on that issue. We should ensure that if pupils are eligible for a school bus ticket and are living within a catchment area, they should be accommodated on school buses. In many parts of the country, however, they are not being so accommodated.
I compliment the Garda Commissioner on his decision to launch an investigation into the siege in Gort. I also compliment members of the Garda Síochána who performed very well, as far as I can ascertain from my vantage point, in what was a terrible situation. I am confident that such an investigation will see that their actions were in order.
I wish to raise the issue of Garda numbers with the Leader. On 27 March, I wrote to the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, about Garda numbers in the Garda districts and divisions in Carlow and Kilkenny. He was not the Tánaiste then, although he has had a great deal of activity in the meantime. I received a reply on 5 October, seven months later, having requested the information on 27 March. That delay is unacceptable. When Members of the House or a member of the public writes to a Minister seeking to ascertain basic Garda figures throughout the country they should get a more prompt response rather than having to wait seven months for a reply.
Joe McHugh (Fine Gael)
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I request the Leader of the House to arrange for a debate on the marine industry. We are a maritime nation and we owe it to people involved in the fishing industry to have such a debate because over the years we have invested quite heavily in the marine infrastructure, be it in piers or our fleets. We should have such a debate as matter of priority.
A serious issue is developing in the pelagic sector. Fishermen on one or two vessels in the pelagic sector are overfishing and for that they should be punished, about that there is no doubt. However, as a result of guidelines introduced by the Department, serious problems exist in terms of the pelagic fleet. This fleet primarily fish scad which is a variation of horse mackerel. The scad fishermen up to last year were allowed a 10% mix of herring and other variations of mackerel.
Joe McHugh (Fine Gael)
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I ask the Cathaoirleach to indulge me. This year that rate was reduced to 5%. This has resulted in an unavoidable mix of herring and other variations of horse mackerel going into the scad and fishermen are dumping hundreds of tonnes of scad, of which 75% to 80% is dead, into the sea. This is happening as a result of an impractical guideline from the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources sanctioned by the Minister in that Department. It is not workable.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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We have gone over the time provided for the Order of Business and another Member is offering.
Joe McHugh (Fine Gael)
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We are all in favour of conservation and sustainability but fishermen want practicality. They do not have it and fish are being dumped as a result of crazy bureaucracy introduced by the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I call Senator Browne and remind him that we have gone over the time allowed for the Order of Business. We are very much in injury time.
Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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Hopefully, I will not get a red card. On the matter of educational grants, I have asked the Minister for Education and Science to examine the possibility of basing the qualification for such grants on net income as in the case of qualification for a medical card because couples and families find it difficult to cope without the benefit of such grants. Qualification for a medical card has been based on net income for a number of years and the same criterion should apply to qualification for educational grants.
I support the call for a debate on ethics. In terms of the recent saga, the real loser in recent weeks has been the body politic. I would be slow in rushing to introduce further legislation on ethics because it would infringe deeply on people's personal lives and the lives of their spouses and ex partners, as we saw recently. All we would do by such a measure is turn people off considering entering politics. We should be careful about that.
I proposed previously that the option for the Cathaoirleach to take four matters on the Adjournment be considered and if the Seanad is to sit two days a week, I ask that this proposal be reconsidered.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That was discussed at a meeting of the Committee on Procedures and Privileges and a decision was made on it.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brian Hayes raised the matter of which Department will deal with the legislation on an agreement between the European Union and the United States that will be dealt with this evening. The legislation will be taken by the Department of Transport as it comes under its aegis. The Deputy's party spokesperson on transport who has just come into the Chamber will be in charge of dealing with that matter for his party.
Senator Brian Hayes also raised the matter of the SSIA scheme and the note I have received on that requires clarification. It states that the amount of income to be included in respect of SSIAs is the Government contribution earned on the savings in the relevant tax year, say up to April of last year or whenever. The note further states that this is the same position as has existed in the past in respect of similar savings products, including deposit accounts, post office savings certificates, life assurance bonds, etc. It further states that the treatment of SSIAs is consistent with the treatment of other similar investments over many years.
However, the SSIAs were a special savings product to encourage saving and the scheme was introduced for that purpose. The aspect raised requires clarification and I will seek to ensure the Minister for Education and Science comes to the House to deal with the matter.
Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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The small amount of money involved could result in a recipient being pushed over the limit in terms of his or her qualification.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, it could. I notice the Department has tightened the allocation of grants this year.
Senator Brian Hayes wished the Northern Ireland talks well, for which I thank him. He hoped that there will be a bright new future for the people of the North. He called for a debate on Northern Ireland when the Government representatives return and I hope we will have one.
Senator O'Toole sought clarification on the issue of the SSIAs, which I will seek to obtain. The Senator raised the issue of the privatisation of Aer Lingus and asked did nobody envisage that Mr. Michael O'Leary was lurking in the long grass. It did not strike people he would pounce like that.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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No, it did not. Talk about bravura, it was something else. How could such a scenario work? He is the very person who gives out about the monopoly on State airports and about having an airport under state control, yet he is now seeking to control another airline.
Senator Ryan asked if the Government can do anything right. He said that when the section of road from Fermoy and Cork was tolled An Post instructed its drivers to travel the old route. This means those vehicles thunder through the villages in that area, which was not meant to be the result of the tolling. When I travel on the section of road tolled on my way to and from Kinegad to Dublin I never meet a truck; they all travel on the old road. That is silly — they end up taking the rat runs.
Senator Ryan also raised the matter of the quality of the advise the Government received. He asked did nobody envisage the Ryanair spectre emerging.
Senator Dardis wished the talks in Scotland well. He requested a debate on the probability of an Irish force going to the Lebanon couched, if necessary, in the context of a debate on the situation in the Middle East or on its own in isolation. I will request such a debate as I consider it is necessary. However, it is not necessary to debate that matter here as it comes under the triple lock mechanism. Nevertheless, it would be useful to have such a debate.
Senator Finucane ascribed a lovely term to the person seeking to take over Aer Lingus, that of the cuckoo in the nest. The Senator also raised the matter of the nursing home subventions, the granting of which has also tightened. I know of a case where two pensions go towards the cost of care of an individual, yet there is still a shortfall of €800 in the amount required, and the people concerned do not have the money to make up that shortfall. The man concerned has Alzheimer's and has high dependency needs and there is the issue of what it will cost to provide for his care. The level of subventions have not kept pace with inflation.
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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In some cases subventions are being withdrawn.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Leyden raised the issue of the Competition Authority and neglect of the time limit in a takeover. He said the matter should be debated and that those in the authority should resign, which I will not go into now.
Senator Ross said the shares in Aer Lingus were sold too cheaply. He said the advisers who advised on the sale are advising on how to cope with the cuckoo in the nest and he asked is that not an odd day to do business.
Senator Mansergh sought a debate on the report on the horseracing industry and asked that in 2008, which is the cut-off date for the type of grant now given, that the grant be renewed. Senator Ulick Burke raised the SSIA scheme and the disability legislation. The Senator may have missed the Private Members' debate last week when we discussed that matter. We hope to have a resolution of the issue. I am not talking about the money but a proper debate on the issue.
Senator Morrissey called for a debate on the State airports Bill. The Senator was very keen on the Bill when it was introduced.
Tom Morrissey (Progressive Democrats)
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Of course, it is what is needed.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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It did not work out that way. The Senator also raised the issue of insurance. He is correct in that the cost has come down and we should have a debate on it.
Senator O'Meara spoke about youth mental health. She also inquired about the defamation Bill and the privacy Bill. I will have to make arrangements to meet the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, to ask if he is proceeding with these Bills because they are Seanad Bills and we want to know.
Senator Ormonde extended her good wishes to the talks in Scotland and supported the call for a debate on mental health. Senator Coghlan said the Competition Authority had failed the public interest by not investigating the sale of Statoil. He said the number of petrol stations has decreased enormously. Senator Scanlon had a different take on SSIAs and stated that only the interest earned would be reckoned in education maintenance grant applications.
Senator Norris called for a debate on Ryanair's attempt to take over Aer Lingus. The first thing Mr. O'Leary did was to alienate the workforce by saying he would sack 1,000 people immediately. The Senator asked also for a debate on the situation in Darfur or on the role of the UN peacekeeping missions.
Senator John Paul Phelan concurred with what Senator Mansergh said on the horse industry. He sought clarification on school bus transport. He wished to compliment the Garda on the incident at Gort and what happened there and called for a debate on Garda numbers.
Senator McHugh wants a debate on fisheries. Senator Browne said educational grants should be based on net income. That might be a difficult matter. The Senator is correct as that is the money in the hand. The Senator also called for a debate on ethics, on which we had a little toing and froing earlier.