Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is Nos. 1, 22 and 32, motion 22. No. 1, statements on the UN Committee's report on progress made on the position of children in Ireland, will be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business until 5.00 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and those of other Senators not to exceed ten minutes each, and the Minister to be called upon to reply no later than five minutes before the conclusion of the statements. No. 22, which was not on the Order of Business circulated to Senators over the weekend, is a motion concerning an agreement between the EU and the United States on the continued use of passenger name record data. As part of their anti-terrorism and security measures following the events of 11 September 2001, US authorities have for some time required airlines on transatlantic routes to supply personal information on passengers in advance of travel, commonly referred to as passenger name record, PNR, data. The transfer of data has taken place within the framework of a decision by the European Commission under EU data protection legislation and undertakings given to the Commission by the US authorities limiting the use to which the data would be put to protect the rights of EU citizens while, at the same time, assisting the international effort against terrorism. The European Court of Justice struck down the previous agreement on 30 May 2006 as that agreement only required a Commission decision on behalf of the Community. The revised agreement will require the agreement of all member states as well as the EU. No. 22 will be taken on the conclusion of Private Members' business at approximately 7.15 p.m., will conclude not later than 8 p.m. and each group will have eight minutes to discuss the matter. It is also being taken in the Dáil today. No. 32, motion 22, will be taken from 5 p.m. until 7 p.m.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the fact that national Parliaments will have to ratify No. 22 rather than it being left to the European Union institutions, whether the Commission or Council. Does this measure come within the remit of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform or another Department? I presume it is a justice issue. We welcome the fact we are to debate it, although I did not know this until I heard it on the Order of Business.

When the Government first outlined its proposal to introduce the special savings investment accounts, there were two objectives in mind. The first was to take money out of the economy thereby helping some inflationary problems emerging at the time while the second was to encourage a culture of savings in Irish society. I have now discovered the Department of Education and Science will tax low income families and refuse them third level maintenance grants on the back of those families having special savings investment accounts.

I would like the Minister for Education and Science to come to the House this week, if at all possible, to explain why the Government will penalise low income families in this way. This was not part of the terms and conditions of the special savings investment accounts. There was no mention of this when hundreds of thousands of people signed up to this scheme. The very people we need to support will be taxed. That is unacceptable. I would like the Minister to come to the House this week to explain why she is introducing this and putting pressures on local authorities to demand that when SSIAs mature, these people will not be able to obtain third level maintenance grants. They might also lose their medical cards or other social welfare payments. This is unacceptable and we need some accountability on this issue.

I and my party fully support the discussions in Scotland this week between our Government, the British and all the Northern Ireland parties. We wish those discussions well. There have been many false dawns in Northern Ireland over the past ten or 15 years and I hope that when a decision is taken, it will be a bright new future for the people of Northern Ireland. If ever there was a place which not only needed devolved government but a shared government to deal with the various identifies which exist, it is Northern Ireland. I wish the talks well and ask if the Leader can arrange statements next week following the conclusion of the talks.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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I do not know if the points raised by Senator Brian Hayes are correct but there is a ring of truth about them and there is certainly much worry in this instance. If people are to be penalised for saving, it will be the second own goal of this fortnight. It would be appalling. We need clarification on this issue. I hope Senator Brian Hayes is wrong because if it is the case, it brings into disrepute the whole savings culture and will be grist to the mill of those who say spend today and forget about tomorrow. It will also work against the approach to pensions outlined yesterday in the Dáil by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs. We need urgent clarification on this issue.

Growing up we learned much about selling and buying. If one was to bring something to fair day, sell it at a rock bottom price, see it back on the market half an hour later without even having to feed it and buyers queuing up to buy it, one would not be let out again for two years until one had copped on and learned a few things. That is what has happened at Aer Lingus.

David Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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This is exactly what we have seen. When we discussed this issue months ago we asked if somebody could point out a privatisation either here or in the UK that has worked. What is extraordinary about the Aer Lingus case is that there was unanimity on the left and on the right of political comment that this was a bad deal and it has proven to be a bad deal. We are seeing the same thing happen that happened in Eircom. We are seeing the company being shoved off at rock bottom prices. We are seeing huge profit taking, millionaires being created and we will then see asset stripping and no doubt the company will come back onto the market in one form or another.

In the meantime we are creating a duopoly or a monopoly and prices will be screwed up again so that profits are increased and the consumer pays. At the end of the day we will try to sort it all out in a couple of years' time by some form of regulation. It is an appalling episode in management. We need to discuss this issue, put our views on the table and talk about it. I do not come from the philosophical position of being anti-privatisation. That is not what I am talking about. I am talking about the practicalities and the realpolitik, ordinary people, consumer rights and where we are going in terms of managing the economy.