Seanad debates

Thursday, 2 February 2006

11:00 am

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I would like to be associated with the welcome to the delegation from Hungary and wish them well in their stay.

I ask the Leader to raise on our behalf the issue of the Castlebar-Westport to Dublin railway line, which goes through Athlone in the Leader's constituency.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That may be a matter for the Adjournment.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I am seeking a debate on the matter.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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"Are you right there Michael, are you right?"

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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It is a very serious issue because an advertisement on all the television stations recently has been referring to the fact that we are getting new carriages and so on. It ends with the words "some journey". On many occasions there is no dining car on the Westport to Dublin line, which means there is no wheelchair accessible carriage on the train. As a result, people in wheelchairs must remain in the passageway. It is not good enough in this day and age to have people in wheelchairs lining up in the corridors and passageways of trains. I ask the Leader to arrange for a debate on the issue because, as the advertisement states, it certainly is some journey for the unfortunate wheelchair users.

Photo of Camillus GlynnCamillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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I warmly welcome the prospect of a debate on 1916. I strongly identify with the sentiments expressed by Senator Ó Murchú and Senator Jim Walsh and I look forward to speaking during any such debate.

I support Senator Norris's remarks on cystic fibrosis, which is a terrible condition. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on diabetes at the earliest opportunity, especially type 2 diabetes. At a recent meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children, we had people in from the Diabetes Federation of Ireland and other organisations and the statistics that were made available were absolutely frightening. It is a serious issue on which a debate is very important.

Maurice Hayes (Independent)
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I support Senator Quinn's request for a debate on the integration of immigrants in society, which is the most pressing social problem we face. We need incoming workers for the economy because they bring a great richness and diversity to our society. There appears to be no policy in this regard. We have an opportunity to avoid the situations that have arisen in France and Britain.

On Senator Norris's request for a debate on cystic fibrosis and the disparity of figures between here and Northern Ireland, this is a place close to home from which we can learn how to deal with this appalling illness. Sufferers comprise an important group in society for whom great improvements could be made without enormous expense.

Photo of Eamon ScanlonEamon Scanlon (Fianna Fail)
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I concur with the sentiments expressed by Senator Paddy Burke. There is a similar problem on the Dublin-Sligo line. It is a fantastic line, due to the good work of the Leader when she was Minister for Transport and the money that was invested in the line at the time. The service on the Sligo line has increased from three to five a day, which is important for the west of Ireland. While some of the carriages being used on the line are old, they are more comfortable than the new carriages because they are commuter carriages which should be used on short journeys around the city. These carriages are not suitable for a three hour journey. There is no dining car on the train. One can get a cup of tea but the people serving the tea on the new trains cannot move the trolley from carriage to carriage because it is not safe. There is also a problem for people using wheelchairs. In order not to obstruct the rest of the passengers on the train, they must remain in the luggage area. It is not acceptable that people with disabilities should have to suffer this embarrassment.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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While many Senators spoke about 1916, I noted Senator Jim Walsh's name because I intended to relay to the House a conversation I had with him about 1916. He elucidated it himself when he spoke. He and I had a brief but telling conversation about it and his ideas concur very much with his and Senator Ó Murchú's remarks on the matter.

Senator Brian Hayes read the President's speech. He noted that she spoke about those who died at the Battle of the Somme, and I am sure in other battles in the First World War, and suggested that we should have a debate on the matter. I concur with Senator Jim Walsh that we should have a day-long debate on the issue where people would have an opportunity to make known their point of view. I echo Senator O'Toole's comment that it is time we all grew up in regard to these matters. As we approach Easter, we should have a structured and long debate on the matter. People will have different points of view, but we should have a wholehearted debate. I hope we will discuss the matter at a CPP meeting. It could be a forum for differing points of view.

A strong debate is currently taking place in the letters column of a particular newspaper, which is very instructive. There is also a strong debate taking place via a particular columnist in the same newspaper.

Photo of Brendan RyanBrendan Ryan (Labour)
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Not so instructive.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Not at all instructive.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I will not name the person in question. It would be good for us all to have that debate. I hope we recognise that the President has a much broader agenda than what was detailed in the column which suggested that she was entering into a narrow focused debate.

Senator Brian Hayes also referred to the Shot at Dawn Campaign. Over the Christmas period, there was a vivid documentary on this, which was so harrowing. Some of these people were very young, one being just 13 years of age. They were not asked for birth certificates. Whatever age one gave was accepted. These young people were expected to behave like men, even though many of them were just young teenagers. They were shot while others were let go.

Senator Mooney also raised this matter about which he spoke to me at length last night. There is no doubt the files should be released. The British probably want to keep alive the romanticism or heroism of these people. Everyone who fights in wars is a hero, even though they may come to it from different viewpoints. The British want to keep this sense of romanticism about the First World War. They are very good at commemorating their wars. We see the great pomp, decoration and medals each year and the way they keep these events alive. I hope we can pierce through that and have a good debate on the matter. I agree with Senator O'Toole that it is a process of maturation for us all and we should openly discuss the matter.

I would say to Senator Ryan that one cannot debate 1916 through the lens of today because it is a different time, a different place and there are different actors. There was a romantic view of war until the truth was made known. The poets who wrote so fetchingly of that period kept this view alive. Poetry anthologies and so on contain beautiful words, which I am sure were penned with a great sense of heroism.

The Senator referred to fair trade in clothes and the fact that we are not aware from where our clothes are coming. As the Senator said, there is a campaign which asks people if they know from where their shirts come. We will endeavour to get the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to come into the House to discuss this matter.

Senator Ryan also referred to the need for a partnership debate. A social partnership debate is scheduled for next Tuesday afternoon. The Chief Whip, and Minister of State, Deputy Tom Kitt, will take the debate and I hope a full congregation of Senators will be present.

The holding of the Ryder Cup was raised. I do not watch or play golf but people I know who do, and I do not believe they drink champagne, are looking forward to seeing it.

Senator Dardis referred to the sacrifice made during war and the 1916 Rising. The President, notwithstanding her personal views, would have all our loyalty and confidence. Lest this would have escaped in the milieu of yesterday, I wish to point out that from my point of view and that of my party, the President would have our confidence and loyalty and, I am sure, the confidence and loyalty of this House as a legislative Assembly. Senator Dardis also spoke of the Ryder Cup.

Senator Finucane again called for a debate on energy. Such a debate would be useful. I cannot remember our debating energy in this House previously, apart from our own energy or lack of it. We should have a debate on that matter. The Senator referred to Deloitte & Touche which seems to be involved in everything. Senator Dardis referred to leaks from its report which is not available. We will ask the Minister if he can attend a debate on energy.

Senator Mooney referred to the country of origin issue. He also referred to the Shot at Dawn Campaign, which he and Senator Brian Hayes raised with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Peter Hain, presumably when they attended the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body. He spoke of a newspaper article on soldiers shot at dawn which appeared in an issue published on the first Sunday in August. I cannot remember but Senator Norris said it was he who raised that issue in this House.

Senator Norris also raised the issue of cystic fibrosis and the disparity in the longevity of those who suffer from it here and in the North. There must be some reason for that.

Senator Mansergh is a member of a committee of An Post that deals with stamps. We will commemorate the Battle of the Somme and other battles as well as the 1916 Rising. The debate on that has already widened. We can thank the Members of the House under the aegis of the Cathaoirleach who allowed us to have a mini debate on that issue. Even in the past 24 hours we have all moved forward quite considerably in our views on such issues. That is a good move.

Senator Mansergh told us the Soloheadbeg commemoration will endeavour to have present the relatives of at least one of constables who was shot. He also called for a spirit of mutual respect regarding the President.

Senator Ó Murchú raised the commemoration of the 1916 Rising. He referred to the spirit of everyone who goes to fight and that they go from a sense of patriotism and selflessness, all aspects of Irish nationalism. He spoke of his experience at the 1916-1921 Club and of his dear mother who wore the poppy. He saw nothing unusual in that. They are reflections that give texture to a debate. They give a viewpoint on matters. I remember when I was young in Athlone a woman sold poppies each November. We did not know what that was about and nobody told us. It was interesting to hear what the Senator had to say about it.

Senator Feighan referred to 130 people from Boyle who went to fight in the First World War for the freedom of small nations, albeit that is what we were told was the ideal for which they went to fight. When people were in the trenches I suppose small nations seemed far away.

Yesterday, Senator Jim Walsh called for a day-long debate on 1916 and I mulled over what he said last night. The proclamation was a very advanced social document for its time.

I fully agree with what Senator Quinn said about the integration of immigrants. We opened the borders, invited them in, sent out the message that we need them, love them and they could come here without much fuss. However, now that they are here, there is nobody whom they can contact. We do not want a nanny State but it would be helpful for them to have a referral point or person where they could get advice, know their rights and be looked after in general. This would be a good subject for a debate. Approximately 500,000 immigrants will come to live here over the next five years, which is a very significant figure compared with our population. This trend is proceeding in an ad hoc fashion.

Senator Hanafin spoke of the different types of imperialism which provoked the 1916 Rising and the First World War. He joined Deputy Finucane in calling for a debate on energy.

Senator Paddy Burke raised the Castlebar-Westport-Dublin railway line and, in particular, the lack of wheelchair accessibility on that line. Senator Glynn referred to the remarks on cystic fibrosis and called for a debate on the incidence of type 2 diabetes.

Senator Maurice Hayes called for a debate on integration, which is the issue facing immigrants we have welcomed here. We do not want them to be here as a specialist group but to be integrated. Such a debate would be useful. The Senator also referred to the disparity in longevity of sufferers of cystic fibrosis North and South.

Senator Scanlon referred to the Dublin to Sligo railway line. He mentioned the difference between the old carriages which everybody despised and the new carriages which are not quite everybody's dream, as they do not allow for free passage of the tea trolley or access for people with disabilities. I take on board the Senator's point and we will endeavour to work that matter into a debate on transport.

Order of Business agreed to.