Seanad debates
Wednesday, 5 October 2005
Order of Business.
2:30 pm
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business today is Nos. 1 and 19, motion No. 23 with No. 1, statements on early childhood education (resumed) to be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude no later than 5 p.m. Senators have eight minutes each, with the Minister to be called upon to reply no later than five minutes before the conclusion of the statements; and No. 19, motion No. 23, to be taken from 5 p.m. until 7 p.m.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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The Leader of the House will agree that for many years domestic violence and the appalling levels of violence inflicted on women in our society were taboo subjects constantly swept under the carpet. Last year out of 20,000 calls made to Women's Aid, a dedicated helpline women can ring to report incidences of abuse and receive counselling and advice, 7,000 were missed because of a shortfall in funding of €70,000. In this day and age it is a scandal that a dedicated helpline cannot do its important work because of the lack of such a paltry sum of money. When that is set against the €70 million the Government has given to consultants to roll out a botched payroll system in the Department of Health and Children we see how misplaced are our priorities. We need a debate on domestic violence as soon as possible to establish exactly what support the Government is prepared to give to such agencies to help them do their important work.
I ask the Leader if she will provide time in next week's Order of Business to debate No. 19, motion No. 21, in the name of my colleague Senator Coghlan, on the groceries order, given the heated and contentious debate that occurred last night in the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party?
Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should not believe everything he reads.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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It is high time the Government set out its exact position. I understand the abolitionists are in a significant minority on the issue. We need a debate and a substantive motion on the Order Paper. Senator Coghlan has such a motion and a proposal for the way forward and I encourage the Government to provide time next week for such a debate.
3:00 pm
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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In spring last year Senator Ross and I put down a motion in the House concerning auctioneers and auctioneering and the need for regulation. It was accepted by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Michael McDowell, who acted on it by setting up a review committee which has now reported. We have not seen the report yet but we are aware he will propose a regulatory system for auctioneers. This initiative came from the House, was developed and has borne fruit. I look forward to the next stage.
The Irish Ferries dispute has raised many fundamental issues and I am concerned that we are not seeing the wood for the trees in the matter. Industrial relations only work if everybody takes part in the process; if this does not happen we are in trouble. The last piece of legislation relating to this which was passed and which made the process somewhat voluntary, putting people on their honour, can be ignored. The Labour Court should be given the authority and right to compel people to attend and subpoena people, whether these people represent unions or companies. The people can argue the case when there is so much at stake.
The main issue with the Irish Ferries dispute is that if a similar practice takes off in the economy, we will witness an erosion of standards of living and work that have been won and developed through hard work at all levels, from management to workers and all those in between. Greater wealth was created in this country, it was spread out and standards of living were improved. Even people in this House benefitted from benchmarking and other schemes that came from such a process. The work is about to be usurped. If this happens, every part of the economy will be affected and we will start going backwards. It will be a case of "back to the future".
Last year I raised the issue of the flags of convenience under which some ships operate in our ports. In many cases, these ships are no more than institutionalised sweat shops where normal health and safety practices are completely ignored or left unimplemented. This issue does not help us, and the Irish Ferries dispute should be debated and discussed, leading to certain definite conclusions from Government. I would welcome a debate on the matter.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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I ask the Leader if she has made any progress on the issue of aircraft allowed to land in the country that do not produce manifests of cargo and crew. Under what circumstances are these aircraft permitted?
I agree with Senator O'Toole. I read this week about a group of Polish workers who complained six months ago that they were being underpaid by their employer, yet the labour inspectorate in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment has not yet begun investigating the complaint. This is because the inspectorate does not have sufficient staff. If that case takes more than six months to investigate, how long will it take to draft legislation and how can we believe that it will be enforced? The first thing that is required is a significant and multilingual expansion in the labour inspectorate.
A controversy arose this week on the issue of who defines ethos in our hospitals. When equality legislation was passing through the Houses, many endeavoured to produce a definition of ethos so that people would know what the term meant. It appears to me, on the basis of two separate experiences, that ethos means what people want it to mean. If, on one hand, one ventures into the area of human sexuality, one receives a metaphorical strike from a crozier delivered by people who have the most plausible reasons. If, on the other hand, one tries to set up a hostel for homeless alcoholics, as I experienced in Cork recently, one can collide with Catholic schools, whose official ethos is to champion the cause of the homeless — the marginalised, according to religious orders. These schools led and sustained a campaign against the provision of the hostel in the vicinity of the school. One can conclude that with regard to official Roman Catholicism, sex is important and the poor do not count.
Tom Morrissey (Progressive Democrats)
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Next April, the Dublin Port tunnel will hopefully be opened. This tunnel has cost much money, but the number of cars using it will possibly be severely limited because of excessive proposed toll costs. More important, the tunnel will not take all the trucks coming to and going from this country. For the benefit of using the tunnel, the haulage industry will pay some €20 million to National Toll Roads to cross the M50 back and forth on an annual basis. Of that €20 million approximately €10 million will go to the Government and €10 million to NTR. Some may have a problem with the size of the tunnel. On the Finglas Road——
Tom Morrissey (Progressive Democrats)
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——on the N2, there is a sign "low bridge ahead". The low bridge is 4.9 m in height. Will there be a sign "low tunnel ahead" leading into the tunnel because the tunnel is 4.65 m?
Maurice CumminsTom Morrissey (Progressive Democrats)
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At a time when the M50 is being upgraded and the M50 consortium will take in an extra €20 million, what is the Department of Transport doing in regard to traffic congestion and the height of vehicles entering and exiting the country?
Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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I support what Senator Ryan said about beefing up the inspectorate division. There has been a dramatic expansion as a result of Polish, Lithuanian, Latvian and many other nationalities coming to Ireland. In every rural town there are workers from those communities. While everybody has focused on the position of Irish Ferries because of the numbers involved how can we ensure there is not mass exploitation throughout the country of many of these workers who have language difficulties? I agree with the Senator that if they are beefing up the inspectorate there are people with different language skills who can communicate with the new communities.
In regard to the ESB and the expansion on the east coast of urban communities radiating out into the countryside I am appalled at the standing charge on the ESB bill, of which I was not aware. There is a standing charge of €94 for those in rural areas and a standing charge of €52 for those in urban communities. It has been discovered with the mushrooming of populations in rural areas that many had been paying the rural charge. The ESB has said it will take action at the end of next year with a view to rectifying the bill, whether rural or urban. To wait until then could be deemed as sharp practice. It should act now to rectify the position. The public service obligation on a bill which imposes an extra charge on all consumers is an aberration in this day and age. The energy regulator has said this is anti-competitive. It is up to the Minister to remove that public service obligation and reduce ESB bills for consumers.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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Last week the House debated an issue on which all sides came together and agreed a common motion. It was an interesting exercise. During the course of the debate I referred to the issue of sectarianism in Northern Ireland. Since then there has been a number of reports, not least the one in the newspapers with regard to the blessing of a graveyard in north Antrim where there have been threats to dig up bodies. That is unacceptable. I ask the Leader, with her colleague leaders in the other parties, to bring forward a composite motion on the issue of sectarianism and leadership there to ensure the matter is tackled. I am glad some of the Unionists have spoken out against that issue. It has implications for the peace process and leads to severe polarisation of communities. It is essential that the House be heard with one voice on such an important issue which is happening only 100 miles from here.
Shane Ross (Independent)
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I call for a debate on the Comptroller and Auditor General's report which was published last week. I am not doing so to knock the Government in any sense because, while it provides a great deal of material with which the Opposition can criticise the Government, I do not really believe that it is a matter of great concern.
Successive Governments have presided over huge waste in the public sector on an ongoing basis. It would be useful for the House to discuss transport, to which Senator Morrissey referred. While this is not an issue of waste, it does concern auditors having missed a €2 million item. It is a matter of public concern that the auditors, KPMG, failed to see — as it was their duty to see and certify as being true — that €2 million due to the Government from National Toll Roads was not paid over. Not only was it missed and miscomputed extraordinarily by the company, but it was also missed and miscomputed by the National Roads Authority and the Department of Transport. I will not be more specific than that, but I wonder how many other items of this sort are being missed by auditors who are paid specifically not to miss these items. How that particular item was missed is beyond explanation.
Senator O'Toole referred to auctioneers but it is not yet time for the House to congratulate itself on having achieved anything in this regard. Nonetheless, a commission was established and I thank the Leader and the Minister for their help in that matter. I ask the Leader to make representations to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform so that when legislation is introduced to attack this last refuge of the cowboys who call themselves professionals, it should be introduced in this House because the input has come from the Seanad and not the Lower House.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I have given the Senator fair latitude.
Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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Last week, we discussed the situation at Irish Ferries on the Order of Business. Our industrial relations machinery and the institution of social partnership have once again vindicated themselves with both sides attending the Labour Court. Senator Finucane referred to working conditions for immigrants and the labour market generally, which will clearly be important subjects for the forthcoming social partnership negotiations. The Government should not be afraid to set and enforce standards, whether they relate to employment or the height of lorries. We simply cannot allow the market to decide all these maters for us, otherwise it would have undesirable social consequences.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Ten Senators have offered to contribute, so I ask them to be brief. I do not wish to rule anyone out of order when the time for the Order of Business has elapsed.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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As we know, there is much apathy towards pension planning. In light of the recent remarks on this subject by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Brennan, to the effect that we cannot stand around and do nothing, may I ask the Leader if it is the Government's intention to introduce legislation on pensions, particularly mandatory pensions? Does the Leader still favour a splurge in spending the proceeds of the special savings incentive accounts?
John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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Off to the Great Southern hotel again.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Leader has switched her allegiance to Deputy Cassidy's hotel. Would she favour——
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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What the Leader might or might not favour in this respect is irrelevant on the Order of Business. The Senator should ask a question.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I am asking a question. The Leader is a conduit between the Government and this House.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I am entitled to ask whether she would favour allowing these moneys go into much needed pensions.
Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Leader to arrange a debate as soon as possible with the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to discuss water and sewerage schemes with specific emphasis on the serviced land initiative. As many Senators are aware progress in advancing certain schemes has been very slow, which is causing severe disadvantage to some villages and towns resulting in their being unable to grow and develop along the lines set out in county development plans. It is also causing a problem in planning. A demand exists in rural areas for housing. On the one hand people are finding it very difficult to get planning for one-off rural houses while at the same time no housing is available in the villages and towns because many of the schemes have not advanced as quickly as they should have. I would like to Minister to outline to us his plans and those of his Department on the matter.
Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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This morning's edition of The Irish Times reported that four months after a HSE decision to organise hospital care around ten regional networks, the new CEO has now decided to organise hospital care around four regional networks. This will have major implications for hospitals throughout the country. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on this very important matter as soon as possible. It will not be acceptable for the Minister to come back and say this is a matter for the HSE. It is not just a matter for the HSE.
Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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This is a matter of great importance for communities throughout the country and for the management of the health service. Warnings were given when we debated the legislation to establish the Health Service Executive. At what point is there any democratic accountability or input into major decisions being made? I ask the Leader to respond on the matter as soon as possible.
I also ask the Leader to arrange a debate at an appropriate time on the Government's policy on foreign adoption. This follows a report that the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, stated last week that the era of foreign adoptions is coming to an end. Obviously this would be a matter of major importance to many people throughout the country. It is a major policy issue and one that I hope the Leader would raise.
Last week I asked for a debate on the national treatment purchase fund following the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General. I ask the Leader to respond to me on the matter.
Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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I seek a debate on the role of Ministers and the two horrible words the Government hates — accountability and responsibility. I asked for this debate last year and it is more pressing now than ever especially considering the fiasco with the computer system for health services. The new tactic is to blame the HSE for everything and, by implication, to blame the Tánaiste's predecessor. Ministers must realise that while perks go with the job, so does responsibility.
I also call for the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children to come to the House. She has been in her current role for a year now and it is time we carried out a full review of all the broken and unfulfilled promises in that time.
Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach might stop making stupid comments about the alternative government——
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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We have no control over comments the Taoiseach makes.
Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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—— not agreeing when we see such clear differences on the Government side between the Progressive Democrats and Fianna Fáil on matters such as drift netting and the groceries order. The electorate would be better served without his comments.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator's own remarks are not very bright.
Sheila Terry (Fine Gael)
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I support the remarks of Senator Brian Hayes regarding Women's Aid, which has expressed complete dismay at the lack of funding for its centre. It is no longer able to answer a large percentage of telephone calls made by people who are generally in a pretty desperate situation. Having reached the point of having to ring Women's Aid to seek help they are unable to have their call answered due to a shortage of funding. Last year I made the same point but the position has not changed for the charity.
With regard to An Post, I wish to express serious concern about the delay in getting letters or parcels delivered. Today I received a letter which was posted on 21 September. It took ten working days it to get from Blanchardstown to Kildare Street. I had a similar experience when a map posted to me in Kildare Street from Fingal County Council in Swords took three weeks to arrive. While awaiting its arrival I had to request a second map, which arrived within time. How can business survive with this type of service from An Post? If we cannot get our post delivered on time, that is a serious issue in terms of our competitiveness and our economy.
David Norris (Independent)
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I am sure my colleagues will join me in congratulating the Garda on the seizure of cocaine at Dublin Airport, the arrest of two women and in particular the location of a crack cocaine factory in a flat in Phibsboro, which is apparently run by what was described as a west African gang. The gang has a specific new formula for creating this drug which makes it much more easily marketable. This is a very dangerous, debilitating and addictive drug which is behind much of the violence we currently see in the city. Arguments can be made on both sides regarding the legalisation of cannabis, for example, but crack cocaine is a quite different, dangerous drug. We should congratulate the Garda on its successful operation.
I was interested in the question raised by my colleague, Senator Ryan, about ethos, and ethical committees. I thought he was going to raise something which should be discussed in this House if it is appropriate, namely the situation whereby, perhaps as a result of the fact that the religious institutions were exempted from the equality laws, the Mater Hospital, by means of its ethical committee, inhibits women from taking part in drug trials for lung cancer treatment because of the requirement that they not become pregnant. The advice given by the drug companies that women should ensure they do not become pregnant lists artificial contraception as one of the prevention options, which conflicts with the ethos of the Catholic Church.
It is questionable that an institution which receives considerable public funds should stop treatment of this kind or such drug trials. A professor in St. Vincent's Hospital has described the decision as sectarian.
David Norris (Independent)
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I am not the only computer-illiterate person in the general vicinity. We have seen the scandal of the computer system in the Department of Health and Children, but we previously had a debate on the enormous expenditure of money on electronic voting machines, a system which proved inadequate. One of the matters we teased out in this House at the time was that the people designing those machines on the continent of Europe, in Holland as I understand, had not been required to test them against a particular Irish model.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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There are other Senators offering. This is not fair.
David Norris (Independent)
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In this latest instance, I understand that an instruction was given that the programme was not to be tested against the idiosyncrasies of the Irish system. That is bizarre. What are those responsible doing? A huge waste of money is involved and I hope there will be a discussion on the matter.
John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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I agree with Senator O'Meara regarding the rumblings from the Health Service Executive and the possible implications for the provision of hospital services around the country if they are to be administered through four regional bases rather than through ten such bases. As Members of the Oireachtas we should be given an opportunity to let our views on that matter be known. I am aware that Senators on the Government side of the House also have strong views on this issue.
I also agree with my colleague Senator Finucane, who noted the latest rip-off mentioned this morning on national radio. The ESB has different charges for connections in rural and urban areas, and some people in newer urban areas are facing rural charges. The Minister responsible could usefully attend the House for a discussion on the matter.
Before the recess, I spoke about the National Educational Psychological Service. The Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Mary Hanafin, should come to the House to discuss the lack of psychologists in the service. There are serious problems and a serious divergence in the levels of service being provided throughout the country. For example, in County Kerry there is 100% cover for primary school students but in Kilkenny, where I live, there is only 18% cover. As a former teacher, the Leader will agree that the assessment and early recognition of psychological or educational difficulties in students is vital. The Minister should be invited to the House to discuss this as soon as possible.
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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It is a well known fact that home helps are not getting their proper entitlements. They are the least well recognised group of carers in the community. It is unfair that they have been neglected for so long. Will the Leader invite the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children to the House to explain why the Health Service Executive has failed to give home helps their entitlements under the partnership agreement? This is scandalous, particularly when one sees the waste of resources that is occurring. This waste has been ongoing for years, undetected by the Government. In the eight years this Government has been in office, it has done nothing to improve the status of people working as home helps. That warrants an immediate debate.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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I also congratulate the Dublin north central drugs unit on conducting the raid on the crack cocaine factory in Phibsboro. Last Monday, there were three drugs seizures, one at Dublin Airport, one in Clondalkin and one in Dublin. I cannot agree with Senator Norris that there are good reasons for legalising cannabis. I can think of many reasons for ensuring that it remains an illegal drug——
David Norris (Independent)
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I said there is a case to be made on both sides.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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It is a gateway drug to crack cocaine. I agree with Senator Norris about the many social problems which crack cocaine has caused, as we have seen in the United States and elsewhere. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should be invited to the House to outline what resources he needs and what he intends to do to ensure that crack cocaine does not take hold in our cities and towns. If it does, whatever has been achieved in the Celtic tiger economy will be undermined.
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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To date this year, 289 people have been killed on our roads. Last weekend was one of the darkest we have experienced in this regard. There is nothing to indicate that either the Garda Síochána or the Departments are capable of doing anything worthwhile to reduce the number of deaths on the roads. Take the example of the speed cameras. Often there is only one such camera functioning at a given time in the country. The penalty points were supposed to be a solution but they are being thrown out in the courts. We were also told that these services would be privatised but nothing has been done about it. If this rate of slaughter continues, there will be a greater number of people killed on the roads this year than in any previous year. I ask that an appropriate Minister, whether it be the Minister for Transport or the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, come to the House to indicate what proposals he has to reduce the number of deaths on our roads.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brian Hayes raised the matter of domestic violence and Women's Aid. I accept there is a need for a debate on the issue. I was at the press conference and heard the speech by the Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Fahey. Senator Mary White was also present. The Minister of State told Women's Aid that it was getting its increase. I heard him say this, so I am not relaying something told to me by others. The chairperson of Women's Aid thanked the Minister of State.
The Senator is correct that the organisation had not received an increase for a long time. However, as the debate has developed, I have been struck by how quickly a misconception can arise about something even though the Minister of State spoke publicly to the 40 or 50 people who were present. He said that the organisation was being granted an increase in funding. I met Deputy Fahey afterwards and asked if he had the money. He said he had and that Women's Aid was very deserving because it has not had an increase in funding for years. There is a need for a debate on the wider issue because the rate of domestic violence continues to rise. Women's Aid published a very useful booklet on the incidence and nature of domestic violence and it was very telling, although the facts were put very simply. I will endeavour to arrange to have a debate on the matter.
Senator Brian Hayes also raised Item No. 19, motion No. 21 regarding the groceries order, about which a misconception has arisen. An excellent debate involving 21 speakers occurred at the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party meeting last night. The meeting began at 5.30 p.m. and continued until approximately 8 p.m. If the Senators had heard the lucid and clear arguments they would have been overawed.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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No, the Senators cannot hear the arguments now.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader should not refer to parliamentary party meetings.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment will be making his position on the order clear very soon.
Senator Joe O'Toole raised the matter of auctioneers. I have noticed that every time Senator Ross is on the radio discussing the matter, he says that both Senator Joe O'Toole and himself raised it in this House, which they did. I think Senator Ross is under orders to enjoin himself with Senator Joe O'Toole. However, Senator Ross did raise the matter previously and on that basis, the Minister ——
Shane Ross (Independent)
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Like the Leader and Deputy Cassidy, we co-operate.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Sorry, I did not hear the Senator.
Shane Ross (Independent)
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We are constituency colleagues and we co-operate, like the Leader and Deputy Cassidy.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader, without interruption, please.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ross is the person interrupting.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, but the Leader should not reply to the interruptions.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I cannot resist the temptation. Based on the motion laid before this House, the Minister undertook to set up a commission. Senator Ross asked about the commission on a daily basis and has requested that the legislation be introduced in this House. I would be glad to facilitate that for Senator Ross and Senator Joe O'Toole, who is not here at present.
Senator O'Toole raised the matter of Irish Ferries and argued that the Labour Court should have powers of compellability to ensure that parties attend its hearings. He also raised the matter of flags of convenience.
Senator Ryan asked about the flights that do not carry manifests and I put that query to the Department of Transport. I had hoped for a reply today but expect to be able to answer the Senator tomorrow. He also said there is a need for more inspectors for the labour inspectorate. The Senator also spoke about the ethos in hospitals. He raised the matter of the school, whose ethos is caring for the disadvantaged, marching against the provision of a hospital for alcoholics
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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My apologies, a hostel. I agree with the Senator on that point and believe that the argument relating to the ethos of the Mater Hospital is nonsensical. If women need a cancer drug, which may help them, surely it is a very small requirement that it not be given to them during a period of pregnancy, which is where the contraceptive drug would come into play. Apparently the hospital is not allowing the proposed cancer drug trial to take place. I cannot understand this. The hospital is in receipt of large amounts of State money for refurbishments and rebuilding. It is a nonsensical situation in this day and age. I believe the women are also being asked to promise not to engage in sex, which is equally nonsensical.
Senator Tom Morrissey raised concerns regarding charges for the Dublin Port tunnel. He pointed out that 4.65 m will be the maximum height of the tunnel and traffic congestion will worsen. His points are fair but as he is the transport spokesman for his party, I am sure he will raise his concerns with his party leader, who is at the Cabinet table.
David Norris (Independent)
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We would raise such concerns if we could attend the meetings of the Joint Committee on Transport but they always coincide with the Order of Business in this House.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Morrissey's points are very fair, nonetheless. Senator Michael Finucane asked that the labour inspectorate be strengthened, particularly in the area of language skills for inspectors who are dealing with immigrants. He also raised the matter of ESB standing charges, which are €94 for those living in rural areas and €52 for those in urban areas. Many people in rural housing estates are being charged the rural rate as the electricity service has been extended. That appears to be a rip-off and I will investigate it further.
Senator Jim Walsh raised the issue of sectarianism in Northern Ireland. We also have sectarianism in the Republic of Ireland. The Senator wants an all-party motion to be signed ——
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I agree, but we have had examples of sectarianism here. I will seek agreement with the leaders on the all-party motion.
Senator Ross called for a debate on the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and made specific reference to the fact that auditors twice overlooked €2 million in the NRA accounts. He also called for the legislation on auctioneers to be introduced in Seanad Éireann.
Senator Mansergh referred to the social partnership negotiations and the fact that it is up to the Government to enforce standards in various ways, with which I agree. Senator Coghlan raised the matter of pension planning. I will have a good time when I retire, whatever about him. If he wants to sit in a corner and count his pension, that is fair enough.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Leader is well covered. I am thinking about poor people who need pension provision.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Dooley would like to discuss the serviced land initiative with the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government because it is fine to have guidelines for planning, but if there are no services for houses, planning permission is redundant.
Senator O'Meara is concerned about the plans of the HSE to organise hospital care around a smaller number of centres. She also raised the matter of foreign adoptions, about which I will make inquiries. I will invite the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Brian Lenihan, to the House. There are some countries, such as Romania, which have closed down their foreign adoption systems because they are applying for entry to the EU and have moved on in this regard. It is an issue worthy of debate.
Senator O'Meara also raised concerns about the national treatment purchase fund, which is a mystery beyond all mysteries. The Senator cannot understand it, nor can I. If people do not get into hospital on their first try, they will gain admission on their second attempt if they go through the national treatment purchase fund. I have met many people who have availed of the fund and they are delighted with the speed with which they were treated.
Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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The consultants are delighted with the fund too.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator O'Meara is seeking an explanation of the fund. Senator Browne raised the matter of the role of the Government in the debate on health. People in glass houses should not throw stones. People have different ways of expressing themselves ——
Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach's contribution was not exactly intelligent conversation.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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We do not intend to listen to the Senator talking about the Taoiseach in that fashion. Senator Terry also raised the matter of Women's Aid and I hope she heard my earlier comments on the matter. I know that she has always been very supportive of that organisation. She also raised the matter of delays in An Post deliveries. I live 100 yards from the sorting office but only get one delivery per day at 3.10 p.m. or 3.15 p.m., so the tale from the Senator does not shock me at all. I shall make further inquiries on the matter.
Senator Norris congratulated the Garda Síochána on its crack cocaine haul. He raised concerns about the Mater Hospital's ethos committee and about electronic voting, which is another mystery. Senator John Paul Phelan raised hospital services, the ESB and the National Educational Psychological Service. He wants the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin, to explain to this House why the latter service is operating at 100% capacity in Kerry and only 18% in Kilkenny.
Senator Bannon argued that home helps are not getting proper recognition, which is a good topic for debate. I agree with the Senator that there are many people who can stay in their homes only because they have home help. Senator Feighan referred to crack cocaine but does not agree with legalising cannabis. Senator Ulick Burke noted that 289 people have been killed on the roads this year and wants to know what has happened to the various road safety initiatives which were announced but not implemented. I will invite the relevant Minister at the Department of Transport to debate the matter in this House.