James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I would like to share time with my colleague, Senator Browne, if that is in order.

John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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Yes, that is in order.

James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, for attending the House and taking this motion regarding the EU directive on the restriction of hazardous substances in electrical equipment. It has annoyed me for quite some time. It is known as the directive on waste electrical and electronic equipment, which is known as the WEEE directive, an unusual name, but it has serious consequences regarding the recycling of electronic waste, with particular reference to the position of electronic retail outlets and computer companies.

The proposed statutory instrument, the draft waste management regulation 2005, highlights the storage of such waste and raises a worry for small retailers and computer companies regarding their role in such proposals. If, as those retailers believe, they will be expected to turn their premises into mini-civic amenities to take back fridges, washing machines, small appliances and batteries, their position would be unsustainable.

Fridges are one of the largest, most unwieldy and space-filling electrical appliances. They contain a great many gases that are very dangerous to the environment. The EU code regarding fridges as hazardous waste is 16/02/11. For retailers to act as storage or transfer stations for this waste would require an EPA waste management licence and a special bonded area for the storage of hazardous waste. The cost of such insurance would cripple any small business and I have spoken to owners of businesses who are extremely concerned about this. They would also be obliged to seek planning permission for the change of use and the handling and storage of this type of waste.

Under the current draft regulations, the retailers could become responsible for the movement of the waste from their shops to a civic amenity site. It is not possible for them to move the waste from their shops, which are covered under the waste collection permit regulation. It would also be necessary to seek a permit for the transportation of this to a civic amenity site. Who would be responsible for the delivery of waste to such a site? This might require public and employers' liability insurance but we all know that insurance costs a fortune. A vehicle necessary to transport the waste would require hazardous waste and chemical insurance. The cost of such insurance would be at least six times the rate of the normal insurance. The Minister is well aware of the cost of insurance for dealing with hazardous waste.

Small traders are under enough financial pressure as they have had to deal with competition from the UK, while margins are being reduced and costs are increasing. I know this from talking to friends in the business. The greatest cause for concern among electrical and computer retailers is that there has been no consultation with them on who is ultimately responsible for hazardous waste. Suppliers have set up WEEE Ireland and expect retailers to carry the cost of collecting their waste. In their opinion, the responsibility lies with the producer and it is very unrealistic to leave the retailer as the donkey in the middle and expect him or her to carry the cost of tidying up the producer's mess.

I ask the Minister to give an assurance that the small retailer will not be expected to carry the can, following the enactment of legislation on electronic and electrical waste. This is a simple and logical request and I hope he can provide clarification on the matter. I understand that the British Government has postponed legislation as it wishes to see which way the rest of Europe will jump on this directive.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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I fully support everything Senator Bannon said. Big retail store such as Woodie's are now branching into electrical goods. I resent that because it is unfair to the small trader. If this directive is brought in as planned, it will wipe out small traders because huge multinationals will come in that have already been involved in the electrical wholesale business. It is grossly unfair as the directive would wipe out smaller businesses. I do not know why the Minister is raising his eyes to heaven. Those involved would have to bring in storage facilities, increase insurance liability and deal with other risks as well. Exceptions to the directive should be made for the smaller trader, unless Fianna Fáil is in favour of big multinational companies from abroad taking over the country.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I am grateful to Senator Bannon for raising this issue. If I rose my eyes to heaven, it is because of the amount of mythology that has been peddled in recent times by sectors of the retail trade. They are not helping their case. I wish to nail a couple of the lies that have been told, although not by the Senators.

Retailers will not need a waste licence. I met with the retailers and with the producers and they know that is the case. They will not need bonded storage areas nor will they need transportation certificates. Finally, they will not need planning permission.

The directive, which came into effect on 13 February 2003, is based on the well-established concept of producer responsibility whereby producers of goods and materials are required to take responsibility for the environmental impact of goods and services which they place on the market.

The concept imposes responsibilities on all stakeholders in the chain. It is dependent on the shared acceptance of their various responsibilities by producers, distributors and retailers, as well as central and local government. For these reasons, I have been anxious to ensure that the detailed implementation arrangements reflect the consensus view among the various stakeholders on what will work most effectively and equitably.

The draft regulations, including draft implementing regulations, which I published in April 2005, were the result of a two-year process during which the various sectoral interests worked together on the WEEE Ireland taskforce. Groups that suggest there has been no consultation are misleading the public. The consultation process, which followed the publication of the draft regulations, has crystallised some outstanding areas of disagreement between producers and retailers, especially regarding the apportionment of costs between them. There are intensive ongoing discussions between the producers and the retailers and distributors and my Department is helping to facilitate these. The outcome of this process, along with the various submissions received will all be considered before the final implementing arrangements are made.

The obligations proposed to be imposed on retailers are consistent with the WEEE directive. The provisions in the regulations are a direct transposition of the directive. Retailers are responsible for allowing a one-for-one take-back of old equipment when selling new equipment. They are then entitled to deposit such waste in collection facilities free of charge, which in our case will usually be a civic amenity site. It is only at this point that the responsibility of the producers kicks in, and they must finance the collection, treatment, recovery and disposal of the WEEE from the collection facilities.

There has been wild speculation about the burdens imposed on distributors and retailers. Suggestions that retailers will require waste permits or planning permission for their premises to allow involvement in WEEE schemes are not true. There will, however, be a straightforward registration system which will cost €20. A similar case pertains on the issue of retailers' responsibilities for costs. In fact, the WEEE directive is entirely silent on the costs incurred by the retailers in collecting, storing and transporting the material to the collection points. The provisions in our draft regulations are consistent with both the spirit and letter of the directive in this regard.

Individual retailers, in their price negotiations with the producers who supply them, may well seek contributions towards these costs, or individual producers may well offer such contributions as sales incentives. This is part of the normal commercial negotiation process and it would be unwise for me to interfere with it.

My concern is to ensure that the requirements of the directive are respected, including the availability of free take-back to the consumer and I can assure the Senators that this will be the case. We have a collective responsibility to deal with this issue. I have established a working group, consisting of representatives of the lead authority in each waste management region, to work with retailers and producers in developing pragmatic strategies for effective implementation of the directive.

The draft regulations that were debated yesterday at a meeting of Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Environment and Local Government provide for the insertion of enabling provisions into the Waste Management Act 1996 which will allow the Minister to make detailed implementing regulations for the operation of take-back arrangements applying to WEEE.

People think that we can put off the day when we must face up to our responsibilities. We have environmental responsibilities and I intend meeting them. Far too often, Ireland is before the courts in Europe because we are not meeting our responsibilities. There is no reason to follow the bad example of one or two other countries that are seeking derogations. There has been a series of ongoing negotiations with retailers and producers and we have listened to their concerns. In this instance, however, one particular group is not helping its cause by making extraordinary claims which are entirely unfounded.

James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I understand the concerns of those in the electrical retail business. When the Protection of the Environment Act 2003 was being debated in this House, I asked a question in regard to the burning of bushes, hedge trimmings and other debris on farmland. The Minister's predecessor assured me at that time that farmers would not be affected and could continue to burn bushes and so on as long as they did not burn any tyres or plastic at the same time. However, the situation now is that nobody can burn anything. In this context, I understand the concerns of retailers about the directive on electronic waste. The Minister has mentioned a registration fee of €20. There is significant doubt in this regard and I ask the Minister to clarify the situation.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I fully accept the Senator's bona fides in this matter. It is unusual that we should have this exchange but I welcome it. The reality is that the retailers have been at the negotiating table and I have listened to their concerns. Ironically, some on the other side of this debate are arguing that I am too much in favour of the retailers. It seems I must be somewhere in the middle. There is no doubt that small retailers are worried about some of the inaccurate information they have received.

This matter has been the subject of unnecessary concern. The reverse logistics system means that a fridge can be collected when a new one is delivered. The old appliance can then be deposited in the nearest civic centre or another location which provides suitable storage. Electrical retailers already store materials on their existing premises. The concerns expressed by some parties in this regard seem to be a case of crying wolf and they will do their cause no good by so doing.