Seanad debates
Wednesday, 11 May 2005
Order of Business.
10:30 am
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on the ESRI report on pensioners' incomes and replacement rates, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than 1.30 p.m., with the contribution of spokespersons not to exceed 12 minutes, those of other speakers not to exceed eight minutes and the Minister to be called upon to reply not later than five minutes before the conclusion of statements; No. 2, Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Bill 2004 — Second Stage to be taken at 2.30 p.m. until 5 p.m, with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and those of other speakers not to exceed ten minutes, with the Minister to be called upon to reply not later than five minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage, which may be today or, if there are more speakers on Second Stage, another day; and No. 18, motion 12, re anti-social behaviour, to be taken from 5 p.m. until 7 p.m. There will be a sos from 1.30 p.m. to 2.30 p.m.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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It is almost seven years since the publication of the report of the national task force on suicide. Many Senators, including Senators Glynn and Henry, have called for a debate on the issue of suicide. Will the Leader organise a debate on this issue to allow us to see how many of the report's 86 recommendations have been implemented? Since the report was published, in excess of 2,500 people have lost their lives through suicide. Ireland spends five times more in preventing road accidents and deaths than in preventing suicide, which is the largest killer of young males in rural and urban Ireland. With its unique perspective, this House would assist a rolling debate on suicide, to which several Ministers could attend.
After eight years since the Government came into office it was good to hear yesterday that the Minister for Transport finally realises there is a problem with the driving test regime. The Minister's idea is to introduce a raft of testers from the private sector to deal with the 15 month backlog of tests. However, 60 additional full-time driver-testing staff are needed. Every time the Minister for Transport seeks permission from the Minister for Finance to put these staff in place, he is denied. A debate on this issue is needed. In the summer months, it would also be sensible to extend driving test centre opening times to 10 p.m. and the weekends to help reduce the backlog.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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Recently, I made the House aware that I was the vice-chairman of the Personal Injuries Assessment Board, which was referred to on yesterday's Order of Business and which has just issued its first report. I would welcome a debate on the report. When the legislation went through the House, Members raised serious considerations about the board. If I may gently correct the Leader in a comment she made yesterday in describing the settlements as low. It gave a clear impression that the claimants received a lesser amount of money.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The claims are lower than they were.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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The overall costs are low because legal, administrative and all other costs are down. It is important to make clear that the amount of money which claimants receive is not reduced, as people with another agenda are implying that people should not go through the system because they will end up with less money. That is not the case.
I ask the Leader to organise a debate on the PIAB, not this month, but perhaps in the final week of the current session, when we will have greater experience of its dealings. Some 8,000 cases are currently being processed but only a few are being concluded. Another month will elapse before a clearer picture emerges. Details of the first 25 cases to be processed were announced yesterday and the results are very satisfactory, as no doubt further results will be. The legal profession is also learning to live with the situation. It is not a question of removing legal advisers from cases in which they need to be involved. That need will still exist.
I am delighted to hear Senator Brian Hayes call for an increase in the number of permanent public servants and I am glad this is his party's view. I am sick and tired of saying, every time we need to reduce class sizes, improve health facilities or speed up the driver testing process, that more public servants are required. Those of us seeking improved services should be prepared to defend increases in the number of public servants and increases in their salaries. This is a crucial issue. Senator Mansergh recently called for a broader debate on public service and finance and we might deal with this particular issue during that debate.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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Will the Leader ask the Minister of Transport to attend the House? There is great concern in my home city regarding the Aer Rianta debt, which we were told would be entirely attributed to Dublin Airport. It is now suggested that €160 million of that debt will be payable by the Cork Airport Authority. That authority did not decide to spend €160 million on the new terminal. Aer Rianta did so, and it was understood this was a State debt to be dealt with appropriately. If Cork Airport is landed with a debt of €160 million, it will probably take ten years to pay it off. My rough, back-of-an-envelope calculation is that it could mean a levy of €15 per individual passenger for ten years. That could seriously threaten the viability of Cork Airport and would definitely make it less attractive. A promise was given that this would not happen. I suspect the Leader was never too happy about the break-up of Aer Rianta.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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It is not part of the Order of Business to anticipate matters.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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I just had to look into my heart to know what the Leader was thinking. The fundamental issue is that an undertaking was given on the handling of the Aer Rianta break-up, and there now appears to be a retreat from that undertaking. Dublin Airport has dominated the headlines in this area, but the spin-off from the break-up of Aer Rianta needs to be debated in the House again. I ask the Leader to facilitate that debate.
There are currently 13 Seanad Bills listed on the Dáil Order Paper. Could we perhaps set ourselves up as consultants to the Dáil——
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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Yes. There is a great tendency to employ such consultants, and we could show the Dáil how to deal with legislation in a reasonably efficient fashion. It clearly needs some guidance from somewhere. Three Dáil Bills are listed on the Order Paper today. One is delayed because other people cannot deal with it. That is the Interpretation Bill 2000. I suppose we are lucky it does not date from the last century.
I wish to draw an extraordinary matter to the attention of the House. What sounds like a very impressive ceremony was promised for next Friday, in which Dr. Mudawi Ibrahim Adam from Sudan was to be the first recipient of the Front Line award for human rights activists. He has been very active in the campaign for human rights in the Sudan. He was due to fly to Dublin last Sunday but was arrested a few hours before his flight. He was due to be presented with his award by Uachtarán na hÉireann on Friday next. I believe his arrest was a deliberate attempt to withdraw him from international debate. This man has been active on the appalling scandal of Darfur and deserves our support. Will the Leader consider proposing an all-party motion from the House, to be passed without debate so we will not take up time, calling for his immediate release and asking that he be allowed to travel to Ireland to receive this award?
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I support Senator Brian Hayes's request for an ongoing debate on the incidence of suicide. The most recent statistics show that 444 people died in 2003, most of them young. In addition, we are familiar with the tragic story of the young man from Cork who committed suicide in Zurich. This was the fourth assisted Irish suicide to date, at least as far as we know. Marian Finucane replayed an interview with the young man on her radio programme this morning. This is a harrowing situation, particularly for those who suffer from multiple sclerosis. This young man was at an advanced stage of MS and made the decision to travel to Zurich and die through assisted suicide or, as it is called, euthanasia.
It would be worthwhile to have a debate on this issue. I commend Young Fine Gael and the Fine Gael Party on highlighting it yesterday and consistently bringing it to the fore. The Government and all the State agencies are involved in dealing with this issue. A combined effort is required because no single party has a monopoly of wisdom. It is vital that there be an ongoing debate to ensure we hear all ideas because it is a serious problem. More people are dying by suicide than as a result of road accidents each year and more people have died by suicide in the recent years than died during the conflict in Northern Ireland. This is the main issue facing us at present. The change in the relationship between the Church and the individual has also changed people's perception of suicide.
I commend Rehab on inviting the former President of the United States, Bill Clinton, to Ireland on 23 May. Perhaps the Leader would consider inviting former President Clinton to the House to discuss the issues he will discuss in Citywest.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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It would allow the House to highlight this issue nationally. We have a role in this regard. We also have a right to invite the former President of the United States to this Chamber.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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It is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I respectfully request that urgent consideration be given to inviting the former President to address the House on the issue of suicide.
Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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A short time ago we had an interesting debate on transport, particularly the problem of driving tests. Many Members referred to the huge backlog for tests and I am glad the Minister has rapidly responded. While there might be some teething problems getting the system in place, I wish him well in reducing the waiting list for driving tests.
However, rather than take this À la carte approach, he should deal with other areas, particularly the situation with driving schools. Any person can establish a driving school in this country. There are no controls. There is no uniformity in the failure rate at test centres throughout the country. In fact, there is a big discrepancy between different locations. In many cases this is due to the type of driving instruction available in the area. There is no statutory mechanism to regulate these driving schools, which are self regulating. Approximately 25% or 1,200 of them register as a driving school so regulation is necessary.
One of the reasons for the excessive backlog for driving tests is the high failure rate, with the result that people seek repeat tests. Most people who apply for the driving test will get somebody to confirm that the test is urgently required. Nearly every case, therefore, is urgent because people are conscious of the long waiting list. That must be tackled in parallel with the action being taken to reduce the numbers awaiting tests if the Minister wishes to secure an effective reduction. There will still be a failure rate.
Don Lydon (Fianna Fail)
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We should have a debate on Iraq in response to the news we hear daily of the car bombs and suicide bombings there. Senator Norris recently called for such a debate. We may not be able to do much about the situation but at least we could offer our support to these beleaguered people.
It is appalling that an organisation which is devoted to the protection of human life and to helping pregnant women, namely, CURA, should have its grant threatened by the Crisis Pregnancy Agency just because it will not, or may not be allowed to give telephone numbers of abortion agencies where women can go and have the life in their womb destroyed. That is a sad reflection on our current situation.
David Norris (Independent)
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I strongly support Senator Ryan's proposal that there should be an all-party motion on the subject of the arrest of Dr. Mudawi Ibrahim Adam. This would be most valuable and useful because Front Line was established particularly to secure the rights of those people who are literally in the front line. Nothing could illustrate more clearly that Dr. Adam is in the front line than the fact that he was arrested on his way here to receive an important award for his human rights work. His arrest also constitutes an insult to our President. The passing of a motion of this kind would be helpful and appropriate in the circumstances.
I also wish to support the call by Senator Lydon for a debate on Iraq. I have consistently called for this over a considerable period. It is important because we witness a growing chasm opening up between American rhetoric, which is all about victory and the war being over and all the rest of it, and continuing massacres every single day. The daily total now comes to 100 people.
David Norris (Independent)
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We appear to pass it by.
Finally, I wish to raise a matter that I gather was referred to yesterday when, unfortunately, I was unable to be here for the Order of Business, namely, diplomatic visits and, in particular, the visit to Argentina by a group from a joint Oireachtas committee. I support these trips which I believe are valuable even though in this case one of the projects relating to shellfish cultivation and salmon farming was exposed as folly. Even taking that into account, the development of good relations and contacts is most helpful in diplomatic terms. However, I deplore the tone in which perfectly legitimate questions from RTE were replied to by the leader of that delegation, Deputy O'Flynn, and his repeated references to the fact that——
David Norris (Independent)
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——the committee Chairman is also responsible for the licence fee of RTE.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Deputy O'Flynn is not a Member of this House.
David Norris (Independent)
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I beg the Cathaoirleach's pardon. He may not be in either House.
David Norris (Independent)
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Let us forget about the name. It is very bad practice to employ this hectoring sort of tone and to drop references to licence fees and appearances before a committee. It does not do the dignity of either House any good.
Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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I join with other colleagues in calling for a debate on suicide. We had a very good debate on this subject last year. As Senator Leyden stated, things have moved on. My concerns are about the reporting of such incidents, which has been handled most responsibly up to now by most if not all sections of the media. I am concerned about the reporting of the current case to which reference has been made. I do not wish to add further to that, other than to say that the remarks by some commentators may be seen to glamorise it in some way. Perhaps "glamorise" is not the correct word, but they have promoted the notion that assisted suicide is somewhat acceptable in certain circumstances. This will have the capacity of giving credibility to suicide and may lead to an increased risk of suicide among people who find themselves in detrimental situations where they see no way out. The reportage on this case is a move away from accepted standards. In the past we complimented the media on its reticence in terms of reporting on such matters but that has changed and it would be helpful if we had a debate in this House to discuss it further.
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I support Senator Brian Hayes's call for a debate on suicide. I also seek a debate on the ever-increasing levels of heroin use in every part of the country. Heroin use is now occurring in villages and smaller towns where it was unheard of ten years ago. We need more localised services to deal with the drug problem throughout rural Ireland. Services are mostly located in the large urban centres.
There is also an urgent need for counselling for the parents of addicts as well as for the education of young people in the schools. The problem must be taken more seriously and more needs to be done with regard to the abuse of drugs. A strategy is required that covers prevention, treatment and rehabilitation. We must get tougher on the drug dealers. They are moving around the countryside like evil thieves in the night. They are destroying the lives of many of our young people and this is an issue that requires swift action.
Tom Morrissey (Progressive Democrats)
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On Monday, many Oireachtas Members from the Dublin area met with the management of Fingal County Council. They were shocked to be given information that despite the proposed ratification of the review of the draft development plan by the council in the coming weeks, the projected population figures for 2011 will be reached by 2008. This is in tandem with 7,000 housing units being taken out of the draft development plan by parties who speak ad nauseam about housing shortages and means there will be a further spiralling house crisis in the Fingal area. This is after ten years of trying to meet demand, which has now happened. The reason the councillors give for taking these houses out of the draft development plan is the lack of transport and rail facilities. They say they have not been given the go-ahead for a rail line to Dunboyne, which would alleviate the traffic situation, a matter which has been raised in this House many times. I certainly would like a further debate on this issue.
Like Senator Ryan, I wonder who will shoulder the debt for Cork Airport. The business plans for the various airports are being finalised and I am aware the one for Dublin Airport does not envisage taking on the debt for Cork. This might have an impact on the ongoing debate about the amount of money that might be spent on a terminal in Dublin. I would like a debate on that issue as well.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I remind Members that only eight minutes remain for the Order of Business. Nine Senators are offering and I will try to accommodate them. However, I am not in a position to accept any more.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I know the Leader misheard me yesterday on the matter of the second and third terminals for Dublin Airport.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Members should direct their comments through the Chair and should keep their contributions brief.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Of course. I did not, in fact, mention the Great Southern Hotels group. However, will the Leader agree we can assume they are safe in State ownership for quite a considerable period in the absence of a decision on the terminal in question? I, too, support the query raised by Senator Ryan as regards the undertaking given to Cork. As I understand it, the Dublin Airport Authority believed in the normal commercial manner that it would be suitably reimbursed for the assets it was requested to transfer on foot of a Government decision. Now it appears an undertaking was given by the previous Minister. I would like to hear the Leader's comments on that.
Maurice Hayes (Independent)
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I will help the Cathaoirleach with his time difficulties by simply saying I wish to support the request for a debate on suicide and Senator Ryan's appeal for some sort of motion as regards the visitor from the Sudan, who is being prevented from receiving an award from our President. That should concern us.
11:00 am
Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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Will the Leader of the House once again place the issue of child care on the agenda for debate in light of the remarks by Dr. Robin Eames, the Church of Ireland Archbishop of Armagh, at the opening of the church's General Synod in Dublin, yesterday? He stated that even the Victorians would not have tolerated the lifestyles of and pressures on parents and children in today's full working economy. A valuable OECD report on child care has been published and the National Economic and Social Forum will report in a few weeks on the issue. Many reports are available and the debate will continue but an indication that the Government intends to tackle this issue is absent.
I support the call for a debate on suicide. It is shocking that more people die as a result of suicide than car accidents. However, we should be well informed before we have the debate. I am not sure from where the information on suicide coming but I would like to obtain solid information from experts on what they believe are the causes of suicide and what preventative measures can be taken in schools, hospitals, sports clubs and the community generally to reduce the unacceptably high incidence of suicide.
Eamon Scanlon (Fianna Fail)
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I concur with Senator O'Toole's comments regarding the Personal Injuries Assessment Board. I compliment the board's chairman, Dorothea Dowling, and its vice chairman, Senator O'Toole, on their work which has contributed to the reduction in the cost of insurance. At the time we debated the legislation to establish the board, 40% of an insurance claim comprised legal costs, which was a startling figure. Anything to help reduce such costs is a help.
The special savings investment accounts will begin to mature next year. Once they mature, account holders will have three months to claim the Government subsidy. If it is not claimed within that period, account holders will be charged 23% tax, which will write off the bonus provided by the Government under the scheme. No obligation has been placed on financial institutions to notify people of this requirement. However, it should be obligatory that they should notify people, once their accounts mature, that they have three months to claim their money or else they will pay a substantial tax.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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I support the call for a debate on suicide and I concur with Senator O'Meara that the debate should be measured, balanced and informed. Suicide is a serious issue and even in my county, which is rural and which has a population of less than 50,000, there were seven suicides in ten days recently. It causes major frustration in communities because people do not know what to say or do about it. All parties should join together to draw up a cohesive plan to address this ever increasing problem.
I called for a debate on value for money in Government spending two weeks ago. My call was supported by the "Prime Time" exposé last Monday night, which highlighted that vast sums of taxpayers' money is being wasted on various projects. The money would be better spent on additional hospital beds, new schools and so on. However, we should debate this serious issue, which needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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The first requisite to be a good politician is to have vision.
Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I am a member of the Clann na Gael Fontenoy GAA club in south-east Dublin.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is not relevant to the Order of Business.
Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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While there is too much emphasis on academic success and the points system, points should be awarded for sports. Many young people are enthusiastic about sports until they reach 12 years when their interest wanes. I call for political vision in the provision of a national campus for all sports. All Members should join in calling on the Government to provide a national campus for all sports.
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The Senator should bring it up at the parliamentary party meeting.
Shane Ross (Independent)
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I am somewhat dazzled by the vision on my right.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Is Senator Ross a member of a GAA club?
Shane Ross (Independent)
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The issue of Aer Rianta has been raised by Senators Ryan, Coghlan and Morrissey and other Senators. A serious aspect of this matter is that what is happening is unknown to Members of this House. We should debate this issue now and not next week or the week after when a deal has been cooked up between politicians, trade unions and other businesses. If we debate this after an agreement is made we will be talking to an empty audience because we will not be able to affect it.
I ask the Leader to request the Taoiseach to come to this House, debate the issue and answer questions about what is happening. Other Senators would also welcome such a debate. The Taoiseach is pulling the strings on the Aer Rianta-Aer Lingus deal. We should not have statements because everyone in this house knows that statements are a cop-out.
Shane Ross (Independent)
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There is a nominal Minister for Transport.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is not fair. There is a Minister for Transport and I wish to correct the Senator.
Shane Ross (Independent)
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There is no reason the man who is pulling the strings of the public should not come in here——
Shane Ross (Independent)
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——and answer questions on the issue involved. We should not have statements with the Minister after the event. It is a serious situation because the future of Dublin Airport is not based on the effect on future generations on this country, but on half a dozen seats in north Dublin. It is a scandal that is the deciding factor in the issue.
Shane Ross (Independent)
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It is not democracy because the airports of this country belong to everybody, not specific people.
Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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That is why everybody should have an input.
Shane Ross (Independent)
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Let us have a proper debate with the man who is accountable.
Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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I support Senator Ryan's call for solidarity in support of a person whom most people believe is an icon of free speech and human rights. Those of us living in a democracy find it hard to understand why any regime would want to stifle the expression of free speech. Inherent in this arrest is a snub to our President. It is important that this Chamber takes the opportunity to find a mechanism of showing solidarity in this case.
Michael Kitt (Fianna Fail)
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I join the call for debate on Iraq, not just on suicide bombings and killings but also on the provision of basic supplies such as water, sewerage, health and education, as all are affected by the terrible events there.
I join Senators' calls for an all-party motion on the eminent doctor from Sudan. It is very sad that a person who advocates human rights is not allowed to travel for an award. I note that one of the persons who nominated recipients of awards to be presented by the President was Senator Mooney.
Despite criticism of him, I support the Minister for Transport's actions on the western rail corridor. I welcome the fact that the Minister will go to the west at the weekend to see the corridor, an initiative which was started by our party leader many years ago.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Many contributors this morning spoke about suicide, on which we had a debate on 27 February 2003. As it has been two years since then and in light of everything that has happened since, we will endeavour to schedule another debate. I note that many speakers said they wanted the debate to be informed and coherent. Senator Brian Hayes referred to the national debate on suicide seven years ago, since when, sadly, many deaths have occurred. He called for a rolling debate as events develop, which sounds like a good idea. Hopefully, deaths will not multiply.
The appointment of 60 additional driver testers was noted and it was suggested that opening hours at test centres should be extended. I said yesterday, inadvertently, that less money was being awarded in insurance claims. Senator O'Toole said as vice-chairman of the PIAB that costs and administration are lower, but awards are not. The Senator was pleased to note that the additional driver testers will be public servants.
Senator Ryan referred to the €160 million debt at Cork Airport. The previous Minister for Transport said the debt would be taken over by Dublin Airport.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I suggest the Senator consults the relevant Seanad debate. I remember distinctly the previous Minister stating here that any overhanging debt at Cork and Shannon would be subsumed into Dublin. It is on the record of the House. As Senator Ryan suggested, we should get clarification. If the debt is subsumed into Dublin, it will place a heavy burden on the airport and make things very difficult for it.
Senator Ryan referred also to the 13 Seanad Bills on the Dáil Order Paper, which we seek every day to have expedited. He referred also to Dr. Mudawi Ibrahim Adam who was to receive a Front Line award in Dublin for his work in Darfur. If the leaders of the groupings in the House were to gather after the Order of Business, we could draft an appropriate all-party motion on the matter and send it immediately to seek his release.
Senator Leyden also spoke about suicide and raised the matter of assisted suicide. They are different matters and it is not up to us to judge why a person should seek that way out. The Senator praised the Fine Gael Party for taking so great an interest in the matter. He also asked me to invite President Bill Clinton to the Chamber and the Cathaoirleach properly said that was a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. We are meeting the committee today. I do not hold out much hope that the President will come, but we can certainly ask him.
Senator Finucane called for a debate on transport and driver testing. Fine Gael moved a Private Members' motion on the issue previously, which led to a very good debate. Senator Finucane said the lack of regulation of driving schools should be addressed, though some of them operate a loose arrangement. The need for greater regulation of driving schools was noted.
Senator Lydon called for a debate on Iraq and raised the threat posed by the Crisis Pregnancy Agency to the continued funding of CURA. CURA, in joining the grant assistance scheme, must comply with certain criteria. The Crisis Pregnancy Agency and CURA both provide valuable services.
Senator Norris raised the case of Dr. Mudawi Ibrahim Adam, the ongoing issues in Iraq and the visit by Members to Argentina. He is in favour of travel by Members to gain international perspectives but noted the belligerent tone of a recent radio interview on the subject.
Senator Dooley called for a debate on assisted suicide. We have no process for intervention in Switzerland's legal policies. Senator Bannon raised the issue of heroin use and called for improved drug education services. He was correct to claim that drug dealers are similar to evil thieves in the night. They rob people of money, health and faculties.
Senator Morrissey and other Members had an enlightening meeting with the Fingal county manager. The Senator remarked that all roads lead to the terminal. Senator Coghlan discussed Cork Airport, the debt of which is to be transferred to the Dublin Airport Authority. While, on learning of this matter, I believed Dublin would be crippled by the increased burden, I realise that Cork might also be affected if its debt is not transferred. I am amused by allegations that Cork Airport has gold-plated facilities. Cork should have a good airport.
Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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It is the European city of culture.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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All culture-mongers will go to Cork. Senator Maurice Hayes called for a debate on suicide and concurred with Senator Ryan's comments on Dr. Adam. Senator O'Meara raised the issue of child care. While Dr. Robin Eames was careful to hedge his statements, I received the impression from him that mothers should be at home.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I note his view but do not agree with it. A call was made for information on measures for the prevention of suicide. Senator Scanlon congratulated Senator O'Toole on his appointment as vice-chairman of the PIAB and raised the issue of exit taxes on people disposing of SSIAs within three months. The rush on these accounts will be such that no money will remain in them. Senator Feighan noted the number of suicides in Roscommon, which for a period of time were reported almost daily. The "Prime Time" report was salutary on this issue.
It is difficult to match the rhetoric of Senator White on the Fontenoy club. I recall a poem which includes the line "On Fontenoy, on Fontenoy". Senator Dardis has just reminded me of the line, "Even the ranks of Tuscany could scarce forbear to cheer", which is applicable to this House.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Fontenoy is not relevant to the Order of Business.
Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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Today is the 260th anniversary of the Battle of Fontenoy.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Can the Senator quote any more lines from the poem?
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader to respond without interruption, please. The Leader should reply to the Order of Business only.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator White made the point that there is too much emphasis on academic matters and not enough on sports. She called for a national sports campus. The Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy O'Donoghue, announced yesterday that the plans for the campus will be published within a few weeks.
Senator Ross declared himself dazzled by Senator White's erudition. He is not lacking in that department either. I do not know the poem from which Senator Ross quoted but he called for a debate on Aer Rianta with the Taoiseach. I will not ask the Taoiseach to come to the House to answer questions on this matter.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I will not ask him to come in for such a debate.
Shane Ross (Independent)
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The Leader would invite the Taoiseach to the House to debate Northern Ireland.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, I would invite him in to debate Northern Ireland because he has specific responsibilities in that area. We must remember that Deputy Bertie Ahern is the Taoiseach of the country and it behoves him to ——
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach has done a very bad job.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader to continue, without interruption, please.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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It is right that the Taoiseach would have an interest in everything.
Shane Ross (Independent)
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That is why I would like him to come into the House to talk about this matter.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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If the Taoiseach were to answer every such call, where would he end up?
Shane Ross (Independent)
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If it was Jack O'Connor, he would be in the House in a flash.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I ask Senator Ross to refrain from interrupting.
John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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Perhaps we should quote Goldsmith, "...and still they gazed, and still the wonder grew,...".
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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"That one small head could carry all he knew."
Senator Ó Murchú expressed solidarity with Dr. Adam and his fight for democracy and freedom.
Senator Kitt raised the issue of Iraq and Dr. Adam. He also praised the Minister for Transport for his enlightened view on the west of Ireland.