Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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I enjoyed this debate on an area for which I am spokesperson. It was certainly thought provoking. However, the sad reality is that there are tens of thousands of people on waiting lists. The Minister of State should also acknowledge that there are thousands of people in my age group, in their early thirties, who still live at home. Parents who have done their best to rear them and get rid of them, are stuck with them. It is causing a major problem. I understand there is now a helpline for parents who are totally frustrated that their 30 year old son or daughter is showing no sign of moving on and is quite happy to stay at home. I was thrown out of my own nest a few years go, which is probably just as well. This is obviously a serious issue.

It surprised everybody to see reports in the newspapers that some local authorities are not spending the moneys allocated to them. To borrow a phrase from Senator Leyden, they should be named and shamed. In Carlow we are waiting for a housing scheme in Fruithill that I thought would have been built by now. It is a mixture of social, affordable and local authority housing. Unfortunately for us, the land in question is just inside County Laois which means that Carlow Town Council must deal with Laois County Council. Dealing with the planning authorities is a disaster because a different authority is dealing with the application.

It would be beneficial if the Minister of State could state clearly which authorities allocated money did not spend it and give the reasons. I am sure every councillor in the country is currently attending meetings of town councils and county councils asking why housing is not being provided in their area. They are being told to blame the Department. If, as it appears from what the Minister of State said, the problem is not with the Department, that information should be made available to councillors and public representatives. People are waiting for years for housing. The sad reality in Carlow is that many people involved in the co-operative movement have left and moved on because they are so frustrated at the length of time it is taking to get a house. That is a sad reflection on all of us.

Something I have always been puzzled by is the concept of empty stock. I often wonder how much housing stock is fully occupied and whether occupancy could be increased. Perhaps there is scope in a future census to obtain such figures. In Carlow we are beginning to see the appearance of empty stock where houses cannot be rented out and are lying idle for months. Perhaps the Minister might examine this in the context of a census. I would like to know the real figures. As the Minister correctly points out, while we have never built so many units before, there is still a major problem. It could be that private investors are buying a second, third, fourth or fifth property, and that could be distorting the figures. While Fine Gael welcomes the Bill, much work remains to be done in this area.

Cyprian Brady (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State and wish him well with the Bill, which is timely. As was pointed out, we are in the eighth or ninth year of consecutive record build in housing and are way ahead of the majority of other EU countries. I have no doubt this legislation, in conjunction with other initiatives, will go a long way towards providing housing into the future.

Michael McCarthy (Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State and his officials who were present for the passage of this important Bill, short though it is. I omitted to congratulate him on his re-appointment to ministerial office. He is obviously doing something right or he might have a particular relation.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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It is nepotism.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Members for their co-operation. I accept that 48,000 people are on waiting lists. A major new assessment in this regard will be undertaken next spring and a major assessment of social housing needs takes place every three years. However, many of those on waiting lists are among the 60,000 families on rent allowance and, therefore, many of them are in suitable although not long-term accommodation.

With regard to 30 year olds living at home, the position is worse if they have lived away for some years and must return home. We all like our freedom, whether one is a young person who has lived away or a mother at home. Some 15 years ago this problem did not arise because people emigrated. There was a certain number of five, ten and 15 year olds but the figures then dipped because people emigrated. They are not emigrating now but are working. Some live in family homes while some buy their own homes. However, I agree that some mothers want to get rid of some children. They might also have got rid of them 20 years ago but the children would have gone to New York, Australia or elsewhere. Life is not perfect.

We recently provided figures from a ten-year list detailing the achievements of local authorities. The multi-annual programme was not in place for some of those years. However, I prefer to use the figures for the four years up to 2003 because we had agreed multi-annual programmes with the councils for those years. We are doing the same for the following four years. We would agree with a local authority, for example, that 400 local authority houses would be built in Carlow over the next four years and that the funding was guaranteed. However, as the local authorities would not get the money until they built the houses, there was no question of money being diverted. Instead, some local authorities did not draw down all the available funding.

It is not fair to detail the figures because a local authority might have achieved much in regard to local authority housing but not in regard to voluntary or affordable housing. To give a complete picture, one would need to provide total figures for the provision of local authority, voluntary and affordable housing. With regard to the four year programme which ended in 2003, the key figure is not how many houses were built but what percentage of their intended building targets local authorities achieved. The local authority in County Cavan was the best with 145%, that in County Longford achieved 142% and that in County Laois 129%, followed by the local authorities of counties Tipperary, Westmeath, Sligo, Monaghan, Donegal, Offaly and Wexford, which was the last authority to achieve 100% of its target. The following counties achieved less than 100%: Louth, Clare, Wicklow, Meath, Roscommon, Carlow, Limerick, Kilkenny, Leitrim, Waterford, etc. I will not go any further as it might be embarrassing. However, the percentage of target achieved goes as low as 44% whereas the best was 145%. The county which came bottom with 44% is marvellous at building affordable homes but it is not good at building social homes.

We learned there is no point telling a local authority what it can build in February. A multi-annual programme must be agreed with the authority so it knows what it can do over the following four years, and there needs to be certainty in regard to funding, which has been achieved. Whatever about the past, all local authorities had imperfections but some managed to overcome these better than others. Equally, the Department might not have been perfect in the past but it is developing the multi-annual programmes and has put the required funding in place.

I accept there are empty houses. Some buy these and hope to sit on them and do well from rising prices. There is also much under-used stock, which raises different issues. However, there is no way of forcing somebody to sell or use their home unless some kind of tax on idle homes were introduced. Given house price increases in recent years, it is likely some have let homes sit on the basis that they were making money on the appreciating value. This is wrong and one wonders why they would not let the homes. In some cases, there are disputes over wills, family rows and other situations. If Senator Browne wishes to propose a tax on those who leave their homes empty for more than six months, I might take it up if I am brave enough. Some of these ideas seem practical until one gets clobbered. I thank Members for their co-operation in passing the Bill.