Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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The matter I raise appears simple but is complex. Will the Department of Education and Science clarify who is responsible for school children outside school teaching hours? A case in Carlow was recently brought to my attention. A school in a rural parish there traditionally had two buses providing transport for children. For some reason it was then provided with only one bus, so that one group of children now arrives at school very early in the morning. The bus then travels on a second run to collect the remaining children. In the evening the bus brings one group of children home at 3 p.m. and then returns perhaps half an hour later to collect the remaining children who have been left unsupervised.

This is a complex area. Are the teachers responsible for looking after the children in those periods before school starts or after it finishes, when some are waiting for school buses? Should the children be on the school premises? I know that in most schools there is no difficulty because the numbers of children involved are small. Generally speaking there would still be cleaning staff in the schools and teachers still working on the premises after school hours. Local arrangements are made.

One of my Dáil colleagues recently tabled a parliamentary question on this matter but the response was very vague. It was stated that the age of any children involved would be a factor. The Department should clarify the matter of responsibility in the area. If school authorities do not allow children to wait on school grounds, and an accident occurs involving children on the side of a road, the school could be liable. I hope the Minister of State can provide a detailed reply. The area is very vague and needs to be tightened up for all concerned — parents, children, teaching staff, boards of management and the Department itself.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Browne for raising this matter on the Adjournment. I am assuming that the matter raised by the Senator refers to the periods immediately before and immediately after the normal opening hours of a school. He made that point clearly.

The overall responsibility for the day-to-day management of school supervision rests with the principal teacher. The terms of circular 16/73 provide that the principal teachers of primary schools should organise supervision for the order and general behaviour of the pupils during school hours. In particular, he or she should organise and participate in the effective supervision of the pupils during breaks, lunch-breaks, assembly and dismissal. This circular was drawn up in consultation with the school management representative bodies at that time.

The degree of supervision required of school authorities varies with the circumstances, including the age of the child. To a significant extent the existence and scope of this duty can be controlled by effective communication with the parents, involving written notes of acceptance by the parents that pupils are not to arrive before a certain time.

With regard to the organisation of the school transport system, buses may be required to operate a number of runs. This is to provide a basic level of service while achieving optimum value from resources available. In order to facilitate the operation of these services, children may be required to wait for the bus to arrive, both in the morning and evening. This is a feature of the school transport scheme as operated throughout the country. The responsibility for the supervision of pupils in this instance lies with the principal teacher and the board of management.

I am advised that where the operation of a school transport service according to timetable involves children being brought to school in the morning before normal time of commencement of school business, or children waiting at school in the afternoon after conclusion of school business, the manager may be held liable for foreseeable risks in the event of an accident to pupils during the period intervening. A manager may also be held liable if an accident occurs as a result of his or her undertaking supervision of children while they are walking from the vehicle to the school or vice versa.

My Department provides funding for supervision in schools on the basis of an estimated need of 37 hours supervision per annum per whole-time teacher equivalent. This figure takes account of the nature and extent of supervision required and the age range of pupils, and guarantees the levels of care and supervision provided to all pupils. The Department also provides funding to primary and secondary schools by way of per capita grants. This affords schools considerable flexibility in the use of these resources to cater for the needs of their pupils, including securing adequate insurance cover.

I am sure the Senator accepts that this is a complex area and, in the final analysis, the responsibility in any particular case will be determined by the particular circumstances of that case. I hope that my remarks have helped to clarify some of the issues he raised.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for her reply. It seems that she is putting the ball back in the court of the principal of the school and the board of management. I would be interested to know if any precedents have been established or rulings handed down in court cases in respect of this matter. I may be wrong but, as far as I am aware, teachers are paid for the core hours they work. While some staff remain on in a voluntary capacity, there is no obligation on them to stay after primary schools close at 3 p.m. Who is responsible for the children if teachers leave the premises? It appears that this matter is being dealt with on an ad hoc voluntary basis. I am sure there have been court cases in the past in respect of it.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator is only allowed a brief supplementary.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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I am being brief. I do not wish to put the Minister of State on the spot. Perhaps she could indicate, by way of correspondence at a later date, whether there have been any previous court cases and outline the rulings made therein. Would she also indicate the specific times during which teachers are meant to be present for work?

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I would be happy to supply to the Senator any information available to the Department in respect of that issue. I wish to emphasise, however, the point I made that, as regards the organisation of the school transport system, buses are required to make a number of runs. There have been discussions with the boards of management and responsibility for the supervision of pupils in the instance to which I referred earlier lies with the principal and the board of management. The latter was decided on foot of discussions and in light of best practice.