Seanad debates
Tuesday, 6 July 2004
Order of Business.
10:30 am
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Residential Tenancies Bill 2003 — Committee Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business until 1 p.m, at which point the proceedings, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion by one question from the Chair in respect of amendments; No. 2, National Monuments (Amendment) Bill 2004 — Committee Stage, to be taken at 2 p.m. and the proceedings, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 3 p.m. — which is an hour earlier than indicated previously because there are just five amendments — by one question from the Chair in respect of all amendments; No. 3, Commissions of Investigation Bill 2003 — Committee Stage, to be taken at 3 p.m. and the proceedings, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 6 p.m. by one question from the Chair in respect of amendments; No. 4, Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Bill 2003 — Committee Stage, to be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m, at which point the debate shall be adjourned; and No. 5, Public Service Management (Recruitment and Appointments) Bill 2003 — Committee Stage, to be taken at 8 p.m. and the proceedings, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10 p.m. by one question from the Chair. There will be a sos from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.
We have allowed good time for debates on the Committee Stages of these Bills. Therefore, I am hopeful of good debates but also that there will be no need for guillotines. Nonetheless, I must provide for them in respect of the Bills.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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It is important that all the amendments tabled on the Committee Stages of these Bills are discussed. A complaint was made in the Lower House last week in regard to the Residential Tenancies Bill 2003 about the fact that 25 Government amendments were not even reached. This House needs to discuss all the amendments and I thank the Leader for making time available for the debate.
There is still a deal of speculation concerning the State Airports Bill 2004. The Leader has put together a very good schedule of legislation this week. In that context, will she confirm that the Government does not intend to bring the Bill before the House at any time this week, as outlined by the Leader last Friday, given that it is still before the other House?
As the Leader is aware, the march in Drumcree last Sunday thankfully came to a peaceful conclusion. I congratulate the PSNI, the protesters and the Portadown residents for doing everything in their power to ensure that tensions were not heightened on the day. It bodes well that the tension regarding the marching season, which was a regular feature in the past, will be kept to a minimum this year. It is a great sign of the new confidence of the PSNI that it has managed to broker deals locally to ensure that tension is kept under wraps. There is a responsibility on Sinn Féin to support the new policing arrangements. It is over two years since the SDLP signed up to the PSNI. It is now time for Sinn Féin to cross the Rubicon, support the new arrangements and make it a totally new beginning for policing for everyone in Northern Ireland. The success of the PSNI in Drumcree last Sunday is the type of success we want replicated every week in Northern Ireland. I congratulate the PSNI in that regard.
Since we are in the throes of the tourism season, a recent report showed that, according to the Central Bank, the price of goods here exceeds the EU average by 12% and that tourists who come here want value for money. We are known historically as the Ireland of the welcomes, but of late we have been known as the Ireland of the rip offs. We have not provided good value for money for tourists. As we move through the tourism season hoteliers, restaurateurs and all of us have a responsibility to ensure value for money. Not only are tourists coming here to enjoy a holiday, but ultimately they will be ambassadors for the country when they leave and tell their friends back at home about their trip. It is important for a major industry that we keep a focus on the price of goods and services to ensure Ireland is as competitive as possible.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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It is important the House recognises that the auctioneering review group has been established and is up and running, arising from an initiative in this House which was pushed and supported very much by the Leader. This is worth recognising and I refer particularly to those people who are constant critics of the House. The Personal Injuries Assessment Board has advertised for people to deal with the motor insurance area ahead of schedule. It was intended to begin that process on 1 January 2005. When the Bill was going through the House, that question was asked by almost every speaker.
I raise also the question of the State Airports Bill, which I raised last week. The Leader gave a clear reply on what she knew about it at that time. We have a large volume of business to deal with this week. The manner in which that Bill has been pushed through the other House, with guillotines and brow beating committees, as happened in the Select Committee on Transport, last week is unacceptable. While that is the business of the other House and it is not for us to comment on it, I would be appalled if somebody were to pull strings to interfere with the Order of Business in this House this week to push through that legislation. It would be an appalling reflection at a time when the Bill needs consideration. Members on both sides will have much to say on that Bill which is not critical or under much pressure. I believe its current shape will change when we come to discuss it. I would be opposed to any heavy handed approach or intervention. This House is seen by too many as a creature of Ministers or a rubber-stamping operation where we do not have any involvement or decisions to make which are of real value. We should express a clear view that we will discuss the Bill at some length.
Recently I raised with the Leader the question of a peace time discussion on the values, advantages or disadvantages that have accrued to the nation from privatisation. We are now looking at making Willie Walsh a millionaire so that he can join Denis O'Brien out in Portugal, or whatever it is that we are trying to do with Aer Lingus. It is time we looked at what we gain from privatisation. We have started on the same route again by having a go at the national transport service. We are being told how bad the service is, how much needs to be invested in it and how bleak is the future. We are told that North Korea and Cuba are the only countries which own their airlines, but we are not told what it has cost the US Government to own its airline and what it costs Italy to maintain Alitalia.
We could consider all sorts of views in the context of public and private ownership. As John O'Connor said this morning, the issue is not privatisation, it is value for the taxpayer and the travelling customer and it involves the broader national strategy. We need to discuss the matter.
Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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I commend the Leader and her staff on the manner in which business has been ordered this week to ensure that every Bill is given the time it deserves, particularly on Committee Stage. Bills are ordered which have returned from the Dáil and have already been the subject of useful discussion here. We need time to discuss Report and Final Stages. I say this as I am concerned at a reference by a commentator over the weekend to the Seanad rubber-stamping legislation such as the State Airports Bill. This has never been the practice of the Leader and I am absolutely certain that it never will be. In that context, it will not be possible to take the State Airports Bill this week. I look forward to an in-depth and full discussion on the legislation when we return in September.
Will the Leader schedule a debate on economic policy when we return? I note that a debate on this subject has begun in the Government parties among the real PDs, the pseudo PDs and the left wing of Fianna Fáil which has rediscovered its soul following the local elections. It would be a very useful debate. Perhaps we will get some insight into Government thinking over the summer months as its members get a chance to observe real life outside Government Buildings during their holidays.
I note in the media that the report by the all-party committee chaired by a former Member of this House, Deputy O'Donovan, on house prices and the price of building land appears to be almost complete. It would be a very useful exercise to consider the report at the earliest opportunity.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Will the Leader convey to the Government today my concern about the overtures by Willie Walsh, Seamus Carney and Brian Dunne from Aer Lingus management?
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should not refer to people by name.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I am only quoting The Irish Times. The information is in the public domain.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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It is not appropriate to refer to individuals by name.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I assure the Cathaoirleach they are not shrinking violets.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I have informed the Senator several times that individuals cannot be named. He persists in doing so, which is disappointing to the Chair, and I ask him to refrain.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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If they are irrelevant, why did the Senator mention them? Do not mention names.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I wish the Leader to convey to Government my view that the buy out with venture capital of Aer Lingus would be akin to reneging on our national airline.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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An island nation needs an airline. The Fine Gael Party destroyed Irish Shipping.
Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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We brought about Ryanair and introduced competition.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Eircom was sold and its assets stripped.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Fianna Fáil is full of little Irelanders.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Does Senator Leyden have a question for the Leader?
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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As someone who has played a crucial and proud role in the survival of Aer Lingus, the Leader is in a very strong position to convey to the Government my concerns.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I do not want a second-rate Ryanair representing this country as far as airlines are concerned and I do not want to see the shamrock replaced by the euro symbol on aeroplanes flying into Kennedy Airport or elsewhere.
John Paul PhelanTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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As a member of the party that established Aer Lingus, I am concerned to ensure that we do not sell out like Fine Gael sold the aeroplanes in the 1940s.
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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That is rubbish.
In the few remaining days of this session it is unlikely that the Minister for Education and Science will attend the House to debate education. Many parents and principals are seriously concerned about the weighted model for the appointment of special needs teachers which the Minister has introduced. He has clearly indicated and admitted that some schools will win while others will lose out. The problem is he is under the false impression that those schools which will lose out are those which have been over-resourced, to use the words in his statement.
It is important that the Leader should ask the Minister mmediately to review this weighted model he introduced with a view to continuing the service that has been guaranteed on assessment to many children who are in need of special education throughout the country. By next September they will have lost out and it is unlikely the service will be reinstated.
Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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On a different issue, I would like to enlist the help of the Leader, as a former Minister for Education. A letter appeared in yesterday's edition of The Irish Times from the National Graves Association regarding the growing disrespect for the tricolour. This was heightened considerably in the last local elections when one party in particular seemed to appropriate the national flag, the national emblem. Not only has it appropriated it but the manner in which it publicly exhibited it conveyed a grave disrespect to the national flag.
Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I am not asking for legislation in this regard but this is an education process. The Leader might convey to the Minister for Education and Science that some sort of a module should be introduced into our schools, perhaps in the context of the current civics class for the junior certificate, which would inculcate into the minds of our young citizens a respect for the national flag. The flag has been besmirched by violence over the past three decades. It is time we as a nation took back the national flag for all the citizens of this country, not only for one exclusive sector.
David Norris (Independent)
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On the situation in Aer Lingus, some speakers may have given the impression that Aer Lingus is being downgraded to a second rate airline, but I do not believe that. I have just returned to Ireland having taken several flights with Aer Lingus. Despite the fact that it has been pushed into a situation where the service is pared down in terms of the provision of meals and so on, in my experience the attitude of the staff is quite outstanding. That is what marks the difference between Aer Lingus and so many other airlines. We should recognise the marvellous work done by the cabin crew and other staff of what is a great national airline.
David Norris (Independent)
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I congratulate my colleagues, Senators Ross and O'Toole, on their work in drawing the situation in the auctioneering business to public attention and their success in regard to a commission. In addition to the point made effectively and ably by Senator Ross on the wireless this morning, he did the Seanad proud because he took up an issue the impact of which hits many young people in terms of house prices and he dealt with it in quite a magisterial way.
In addition to examining the nonsense of dozens of surveyors' reports being produced whereby young people may not have an opportunity to buy a house because the price increases beyond their means as they have to pay these exorbitant fees, the question of the involvement of solicitors should also be examined. It is idiotic that purchasers have to carry out so-called searches for titles and so on. Such searches are carried out dozens of times when they should be done only once and given an official stamp. In that way we would know that a title has been validated by some central legal authority and people would not need to pay for the same work to be done over and over again.
I do not suppose there will be much time for a review, even a short one, of the situation in the Middle East in which this House has taken a consistent interest. If it not possible before the end of the session could we have an urgent debate to review developments early in the new session, particularly in the light of the very troubling broadcast made by King Abdullah of Jordan, which was quite apocalyptic? He envisages a situation where there really could be a meltdown in the Middle East, which would bring us very close to a third world war. It is a very worrying situation.
The Israeli Supreme Court found that the wall was wrong. Congratulations must be extended to it. Its decision suggests there are elements of democracy active in Israel. However, I am very disturbed that a senior Israeli Cabinet Minister said the country will not accept the ruling of the International Court of Justice in this matter. Where did that come from? It is the example of the Americans who, as they exited Iraq, passed legislation indemnifying themselves against charges of major human rights abuses. They then put Saddam Hussein on trial for human rights abuses. It is an absolute idiotic nonsense.
David Norris (Independent)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach. I would be very grateful if it were possible to allow even an hour for brief statements on this matter before the end of the session. If not, I would be grateful if the necessary time was allowed early in the new session.
Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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On the point raised about special needs assistants, my attention was drawn during the week to a case concerning a boys' school and a girls' school situated side by side. Members of the same families attend the two schools. However, the boys school was classified as disadvantaged and it is getting a special needs assistant for every 80 pupils, while the girls school is getting one for every 200 because it is not deemed to be disadvantaged. This is crazy and the issue should be reconsidered.
Bearing in mind the Equal Status Act, we will be debating the Equality Bill today and we must ask ourselves if it is fair that girls are being discriminated against in terms of special needs——
David Norris (Independent)
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Are we taking the Equality Bill today?
Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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I apologise. It is being taken this week. We should consider this matter. The classification of some schools as disadvantaged puts so-called advantaged schools at a disadvantage. This is borne out in the special needs assistants area.
Can we discuss again the issue of the first-time buyer's grant early in the next term and the need to raise the current threshold applying to stamp duty? The current level is €190,000, which would not buy one a shoe box in most places, especially in growing towns such as Carlow. This matter should be raised in the House. I know the budget is being formulated as we speak but I hope we can debate it in early October with the Minister for Finance. He needs to revise the threshold levels for stamp duty as a matter of urgency because they are totally outdated.
Michael McCarthy (Labour)
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I do not want to name names but I wish to refer to the incident in Wexford where the use of Oireachtas envelopes before the election has become a source of major controversy. Rightly or wrongly, a perception has arisen in recent days that the envelopes in question emanated from a Member of this House. Senators need all the secretarial services provided to them to exercise their duties and functions, as we are all well aware. If there is an abuse of the system — it is clear that there is a school of thought that believes that is the case — the Leader should review the matter as soon as possible.
It is very important that Members of the Seanad are seen to work in a professional manner that is fully linked to their parliamentary duties. If there was an abuse of the parliamentary system, I would not like the finger of blame to be pointed automatically at the Seanad. The coverage of this issue is very unfair and I urge the Leader to examine it seriously.
Brendan Daly (Fianna Fail)
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It is not necessary for me to highlight the anxiety of people in Shannon and the mid-west in general over the impending changes which they feel will have serious consequences for their long-term employment opportunities. The new development pertaining to Aer Lingus, the changes to Aer Rianta and the possible changes to the bilateral agreement between Ireland and the US are further causes of anxiety. Will the Leader draw the Minister's attention to this anxiety? Will he outline, before we conclude this session, the prospects for the mid-west area? Can he allay the fears of hundreds of people in Aer Lingus, Shannon Development — there are also impending changes to this organisation — and Aer Rianta at Shannon and assure them where their future lies?
11:00 am
Joe McHugh (Fine Gael)
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I concur with Senator Mooney on the Irish flag. His point is very important because there are rules pertaining to it. One of the rules states that the national flag should be raised on election day and on other appropriate days but in a respectful manner. We do not raise the flag in a prostituted way as is done in certain count centres and in discotheques in the early hours of the morning. The idea of introducing the national flag as a subject in civics classes is an excellent one. The Minister of Education and Science should consider it. There is a perception that the flag belongs to a particular party and is not a national flag.
Each year, groups which have charitable status pay €18 million in VAT. This matter must be urgently addressed. Voluntary groups should not pay VAT on their income.
The Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004 will be debated tomorrow. The money which becomes available as a result of this legislation should be targeted at groups who deal with people who have special needs and have disadvantaged status. We should be careful about that.
I congratulate the members of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party on acknowledging, late last night, that they have left out less well-off sectors of society and must broaden their base.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is not a matter for the Order of Business.
Joe McHugh (Fine Gael)
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They have the courage to acknowledge that there is much which has not been done and that they must follow the Fine Gael policy of creating a just and fair society.
Michael Kitt (Fianna Fail)
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I remind Senator McHugh that we have done more for the less well-off than any other Government.
Michael Kitt (Fianna Fail)
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I support Senator Daly's remarks regarding Aer Lingus and the mid-west. Shannon Airport serves all of the west of Ireland as an international airport and it is important that we discuss it. It is also important that Senator Daly mentioned Shannon Development. Aer Lingus has turned its fortunes around and credit is due to the management of the company for that. However, talk of a management buy-out is a step too far. This proposal has caused major concern among the travelling public and particularly among those who work for the company. The reports I have seen of a possible loss of more than 1,000 jobs are worrying.
Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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My attention has been drawn to the national flag by Senators Mooney and McHugh. Where we display the flag we should always do so with respect and honour. In my own business I have always regarded it as something we should not be afraid to use. The point was made to me recently that the lowering of the flag at sunset is a British tradition and is only adhered to in former British colonies. I mention this because I have always made a point of bringing down the flag in our stores at sunset. I am told it is only former British colonies such as the Americas, India and Australia which lower the flag and that in France and Germany it is regarded as disrespectful to lower the flag at sunset. It would be interesting to have a debate on this topic.
I ask the Leader, during the summer, to draw the attention of the various Departments to the lethargy and enthusiasm which seems to exists for using modern technology. We have the opportunity to use it and I have submitted amendments to various Bills drawing attention to its benefits. It is interesting to see that different Departments have different attitudes.
Two pieces of modern technology would be of immense benefit to us and I would like some studies to be carried out into them. The first is electronic tagging, which removes the need to install every convicted person in jail by giving them the option of accepting a tag as an alternative. This would ensure that they adhere to the conditions imposed on them by the court.
The other is a much more interesting and is called the intelligent speed adaptation. There is an interesting article on it in today's Irish Examiner. I mention it because I have experience of a bleeper in a car that lets the driver know when he breaks the speed limit. In Sweden, 10,000 people have volunteered to be guinea pigs in an experiment with this scheme. A Big Brother satellite surveys a person's speed and informs him that he is speeding and adjusts the speed of the car to conform with the speed limit on that road. It is already in place in Victoria, Australia, in Sweden and in a number of other countries. It could not be introduced here immediately but we should study the results if we are to do something about speeding and death on the roads.
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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As a member of the party that founded this State, I am proud to say that Fine Gael has always shown the utmost respect for our national flag.
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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There are lessons in our conduct of which other parties should take note.
I call for a debate on the role of Teagasc. We must restore confidence in the independence of the advisory organisation. Teagasc agreed with the scientific recommendations that higher levels of up to 250 gallons of nitrates per hectare could be used but it was muzzled by the Minister for Agriculture and Food. It is important that he comes into the House to debate this. Many farmers now question the authority of Teagasc and its relationship with the Minister because it now appears that the agency is taking political considerations into account.
The Minister must also be questioned on the confusing letters his Department sent out to many farmers last week on extensification. The Minister has admitted an error in this but if the unfortunate farmer errs, his livelihood is threatened and, in some cases, removed. I know many farmers in the midlands who have lost their extensification and other head payments because of a simple error. It is time for the Minister to apologise to the farmers for erring in this case.
Joanna Tuffy (Labour)
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My colleague, Senator McCarthy, mentioned the use of Oireachtas envelopes. There has been much muddying of the waters about these envelopes. There is nothing wrong with a Member of the Oireachtas using Oireachtas envelopes when writing to his or her constituents. The impression has been given by many commentators, including political commentators, that there is something wrong with that.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brian Hayes asked about the State Airports Bill. I cannot see there being time for it on the agenda and it would not be right for us to sit at 10 p.m. to consider any Bill, particularly such an important one.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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It would not be possible to give due consideration to any Bill at that time. We have much work to do this week and I am conscious not alone of the calls upon spokesmen in the House but also of the pressures on the staff.
The Senator raised an important point about the march in Drumcree and I also congratulate the PSNI. We all heaved a sigh of relief when we saw 500 marchers and protesters instead of the 30,000 that was the norm in the very bad times. I agree that Sinn Féin should sign up to the policing arrangements. The election is over and it would send a powerful signal.
Senator Brian Hayes also raised competitiveness in the tourism industry and pointed out that some goods are 12% more expensive than the EU norm. Tourists will stop coming if that continues.
In response to Senator O'Toole, I congratulate the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, because he said in a debate here in reply to points made by Senators O'Toole, Ross and Scanlon that he would arrange a root and branch review of the auctioneering business. I made many requests to the Minister. I told him it was one of those issues about which I could not face the Seanad unless he told us when he was going to do it and, true to form, the Minister did it. Senator Ross was also true to form this morning. It is a significant issue which is exercising the minds of almost everyone in the land. It arose in this House and was presented to the Minister. He thought it was a good idea and he took action. I thank all those who contributed. It was good to hear Senator Ross say that it emanated from this House during the passage of a Bill.
Senator O'Toole referred to the Personal Injuries Assessment Board and noted that it is ahead of schedule. On the question of the State Airports Bill, the House has a packed agenda this week. I do not intend to stir from the House this week as there is so much that could go wrong. Like the shoemaker, we must stick to our last and complete our programme of work.
A debate on privatisation, particularly with respect to Aer Lingus, was requested. I hope all Members will contribute to the debates on the important legislation in the House this week. I heard about the commentator on the politics programme to which Senator O'Meara referred. The House is not a rubber-stamping Chamber; it is a thoughtful and reflective Chamber. This House does not just consider a Bill and send it on its way. I have come to the conclusion that this Chamber should not merely railroad through Bills. I know that commentator and I intend to tackle him.
I am informed by the Deputy Leader that the report on economic policy has been published but it has not been debated in the House. It is important to debate the matter in the House. It could be called the O'Donovan report.
Senator Leyden raised Aer Lingus. There will be time on another day to discuss that issue. Aer Lingus needs finance and the Government cannot give it. Following 11 September 2001, Loyola de Palacio, the EU Transport Commissioner, would not allow a single euro to be given to state airlines. That was part of the difficulty. We all beseeched her and other countries gave funding under some other guise, but Ireland did not do so. True to form, the workers and management of Aer Lingus were powerful. By the end of 2001, they had agreed to a huge number of redundancies and to sharpen their approach and work practices. Its turnaround was a great success story. The company now requires new aircraft and investment. The matter must be dealt with one way or another. The Government cannot provide funding but I believe there will be a fair consideration of the matter during the summer. It is an urgent issue for the company over the next few months. I thank the Senator for raising the matter.
Senator Ulick Burke asked about the weighted model. I have received representations on this matter. There must be some way of judging the number of special needs teachers required in particular schools. While the waiting period may seem unfair, it is judged on age and background; the Senator will be aware of the procedure involved. There must be some way found to do it. Committee Stage of the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Bill 2003 will be taken in the House today. I hope many Members will contribute to the debate.
Senator Mooney spoke about the growing disrespect for the tricolour, the national flag, and I fully agree with him. The first time I was aware of its use was in the main Dublin counting centre during the European elections. The tricolour belongs to all of us. Everybody in this Chamber and every citizen has a right to it and it should not be wrapped around members of a particular party in a triumphalist manner. To use the Senator's words, it is being besmirched through its wanton use by one party. The Senator's suggestion that a module be introduced in civics lessons to promote respect for the flag is a good idea.
Senator Norris referred to the service provided by Aer Lingus. As a very charming person, the Senator would receive good service. We are all charming and appreciate the good service we receive. He congratulated other Members of the Independent group on their work on the issue of auctioneering. Alan McCarthy, who heads the working group on the issue, is a fine person. I know him from the days of An Bord Trachtála and he will do a very good job. As regards the Senator's call for a debate on developments in the Middle East, I understand a section of the wall must be re-routed. As Senators will be aware, we will not have time to debate the matter this week, although I wish we could.
Senator Browne referred to the difference in treatment of a boys' school and a girls' school. This begs the question as to why the schools do not amalgamate. It is odd that girls receive a different weighting from boys to allow for special needs, particularly as there would be siblings in each of the schools. I hope the Senator will contribute to the Committee Stage debates on the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Bill this evening and the Equality Bill tomorrow.
Senator McCarthy called for a review of the use of Oireachtas envelopes. I expect that is a matter for the Committee on Procedures and Privileges of both Houses.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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It is a matter for the Standards in Public Office Commission.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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That is another body of the Houses. I apologise, I understood it was a matter for Members.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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We have enough to do.
Senator Daly raised impending changes at Shannon Airport and developments with regard to Aer Lingus, Aer Rianta, Shannon Development and bilateral arrangements with the United States. All these issues are important. While we, in the Houses, are legislating, all the likely changes, which will affect many people, particularly in Shannon Airport, seem to be coming together. Coming from that region, the Senator is correct to raise the matter.
Senator McHugh agreed with Senator Mooney on the issue of the national flag and pointed up its prostitution and use by one party in a triumphalist manner. The €18 million in VAT paid by groups with charitable status is a very large sum. The matter can be raised when we debate the Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill later in the week. As the Senator pointed out, special needs should receive an injection of funding from the dormant accounts fund.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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It is the Fianna Fáil Party slush fund.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator McHugh also praised my party's new found humility.
Senator Kitt also raised Aer Lingus and Shannon Development in the mid-west region. These are major issues which I hope the House will have an opportunity to debate in full.
Senator Quinn referred to honouring the national flag. I do not believe that lowering the flag at sunset is a colonial tradition with people going off afterwards to have their gin and tonics or whatever. I have noticed that the flag is also lowered in barracks and similar places. The Senator said the idea originated in former British colonies.
Senator Quinn also raised the issue of modern technology and the potential for electronically tagging people who should be in jail. He also mentioned intelligent speed adaptation. While I have not yet read the article in question, the scheme to which he referred appears to be a sensible course of action if we had a cohort of people willing to take part in it here.
Senator Bannon referred to Teagasc and confusing letters issued by the Department of Agriculture and Food concerning extensification. I raised the matter with the Deputy Leader who explained the extensification system to me. I was aware that it allows one to make better use of one's land and one gets more bang for one's buck.
Senator Tuffy raised the use of Oireachtas envelopes. Members may use their envelopes when writing to constituents, as we all know. Articles have appeared in the newspapers which seem to imply that somehow we should not use them.
It is the misuse of Oireachtas envelopes that has given rise to this debate but Oireachtas Members can use them for correspondence with their constituents.