Seanad debates

Tuesday, 24 February 2004

2:30 pm

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, a referral motion whereby the subject matter of No. 20 is being referred to the Joint Committee on Agriculture and Food for discussion — these regulations concern the extension of section 17A of the Diseases of Animals Act 1966 for a further 12 months and its provisions enhance the ability of the Minister for Agriculture and Food to deal with all disease situations, in particular to identify, investigate and prosecute factories, marts, dealers, farmers or others who engage in illegal activities in agriculture — to be taken without debate; No. 2, Civil Registration Bill 2003 — Report and Final Stages, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and the proceedings, if not previously concluded, to be brought to a conclusion at 5 p.m. by one question which shall in relation to amendments include only Government amendments; No. 3, Equality Bill 2004 — Report and Final Stages, to be taken at 5 p.m. and to conclude not later than 6 p.m.; and No. 4, Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions Bill) 2004 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken at6 p.m. and to conclude at 8 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 12 minutes, those of other Senators not to exceed eight minutes, Members may share time and the Minister to be called upon to reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage. If more Members wish to speak on No. 4, the order can be changed later to accommodate them.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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I am appalled by the Government's decision to overturn the democratic will of the House as expressed last week on Committee Stage of the Civil Registration Bill. So much for Seanad reform.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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There are many Members on that side of the House this week. I welcome them all.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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There are many Members on that side of the House too.

Photo of Noel CoonanNoel Coonan (Fine Gael)
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All black sheep.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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The House needs to debate the current situation in Northern Ireland. Members are aware of the calls on both sides of the House for debates on human rights in Colombia and other places. However, there should be debate on human rights on this island given the continual abductions of people by paramilitary organisations that are taking place on the streets of Belfast and Derry.

Photo of John Paul PhelanJohn Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Senator Finucane spoke last week of the shocking practice of young men being brutalised by these paramilitary organisations. The Sinn Féin Party likes to lecture us about human rights violations in Colombia. However, it does not want to deal with its own human rights violations on this island. We should debate this matter. It is time for both Governments to come down hard on political parties that are inextricably linked to paramilitary organisations. Those parties must decide, once and for all, whether they are on or off the peace train. The Leader must respond to this suggestion.

The Forum for Peace and Reconciliation should be reconvened so that Nationalist Ireland, on both sides of the Border, can make a clear and unequivocal statement about the ending of violence in this country. I am sick to the teeth of some political parties lecturing this State about corruption and human rights violations when their own political buddies are involved in these activities day in, day out. This must be brought to an end. We all had to sit back and bite our tongues for the past ten years or so while one political party decided when to move on the issue of violence. It is time for us to speak with one voice and demand a complete end to acts of terrorism and paramilitarism as soon as possible. That statement should come from this House.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I could find some outrage as well to respond to the Government's decision onNo. 2.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator can respond later.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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It is on the Order of Business.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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It is on the Order Paper.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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This is what Governments do in this situation, although it is appalling. Could the Leader please extend the speaking time on No. 4 from 12 to 15 minutes? I would like to hear people from all sides of the House participate in that debate on a non-party basis. It is an issue we need to consider.

We have had several discussions recently about the need for a proper, structured approach to immigration. We need also to respond to the Taoiseach's comments last night. This is a time when wise heads should prevail and Members should know precisely what the Taoiseach said last night. He did not talk about preventing people from entering the country or working or travelling here. He spoke about an adjustment to welfare. Those of us who want a clean and open procedure regard it as appropriate to consider this, particularly given the free travel area between the United Kingdom and Ireland. This should be done sensitively but in any discussion we should make it quite clear that nobody has suggested anything other than free travel — excuse me, I mean freedom to travel, not free travel——

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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We have not achieved that yet.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Fianna Fail)
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It will be in the Pensions Bill.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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——and the right to seek employment in this country. This is not an anti-immigrant policy. These matters must be properly structured. I have frequently criticised the Government's immigration policy but this would not be a basis for further criticism.

With respect to our colleague from France in the Visitors Gallery, every time I go to France I find Irish meat cheaper there than in Ireland. Two weeks ago Irish beef was selling there at €5.80 per kilo and two months previously I found Irish lamb selling there for 50% less than in Ireland. The IFA has been canvassing on this issue recently, but what is the solution to this problem and how can we support the Irish farmer?

Photo of Joanna TuffyJoanna Tuffy (Labour)
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I extend my sympathies to those affected by the tragic accident at the weekend involving Dublin Bus, some of whom were from my area, and I welcome the investigation which CIE will hold. Without pre-empting that, however, we need to debate the issue of traffic and transport needs and what action is needed, particularly by the Minister for Transport. This involves several stakeholders, apart from Dublin Bus, including the Minister, Dublin City Council and other parties, all of which should come together to co-ordinate action on public safety measures contingent on the continuing work on Luas. Further safety issues will arise when Luas is running. I would like an opportunity for us to debate this in the House and for the Minister to let us know what is happening in that regard.

I would also like to join in the welcome to our visitor.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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If possible, could the Leader look at the significant increase in the price of Independent Group's Sunday newspapers? Last Sunday, the price of the Sunday Independent and The Sunday Tribune increased by 11% from €1.80 to €2.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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The Senator should not buy them.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I wonder if Fine Gael will feature these on "rip-off Ireland". Will it be afraid to take on the newspapers also?

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Order, please.

Photo of Ulick BurkeUlick Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator has backed off the petrol stations.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Sunday Times costs €1.80 and is very good value. The Daily Star Sunday is €1.30.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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The town crier is back.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Sunday Mirror and The Sunday People cost €1 each. The News of the World is 90 cent for those who want to look at page three.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Is the Senator asking for a debate?

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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We are having a debate on competition tomorrow. These newspapers are not setting a great example. The major newspapers will criticise this House and the Government about price increases.

Photo of Ulick BurkeUlick Burke (Fine Gael)
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They criticise the Senator.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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They never criticise themselves when they make increases.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator can raise that in the debate tomorrow.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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When was a newspaper ever criticised for increasing prices? Fine Gael will not raise this——

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Of course we will.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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——because it is afraid of Independent News and Media.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Fine Gael)
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I seek an update on the proposed debates on one-off rural housing and job creation in the BMW region. I seek clarification on the progress since our successful debate on the Irish language. We had a very magnanimous debate on having Irish included as a working language in the EU. Has the Minister been contacted and is he working on behalf of this House? We must send the clear message that this House serves a democratic function. This House gave cross-party support to the call for the use of Irish as a working language in the EU. As this has not happened to date, we must show a sense of purpose on this matter.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Fianna Fail)
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I draw the Leader's attention to an advertisement in newspapers in recent weeks advising people not to mail items to Tuam or Drogheda because of the postal dispute in those towns. It is appalling that such an advertisement should be placed in newspapers. In the case of Tuam, there is a question of inadequate accommodation and now there is a huge backlog of mail. Thousands of items have to be dealt with, which is affecting not just business and commerce, but people have missed hospital appointments because of the dispute. The Minister should investigate this matter and if necessary a third party should become involved to resolve the dispute, which is causing considerable hardship to those in the area. The Leader, as a former Minister with responsibility for this area, might have some ideas as to how to help. The bottom line is that people should not take the advice of An Post and stop sending letters. It is discrimination if people cannot use the service in Tuam and Drogheda. People should continue to use the service and I hope we can get resolution of the dispute as quickly as possible.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I support Senator Brian Hayes in welcoming a human rights debate involving the situation in Colombia. As people refer to those known as the Colombia three who admitted to having been found using false passports in an area controlled by the FARC guerrillas, I am sure we will remember the Colombia 2,000 — the 2,000 people kidnapped, tortured and held for ransom by the FARC guerrillas.

I support what Senator Tuffy said and express my sympathy to the people killed and injured in the terrible bus accident. I join her in calling for a debate on road safety. I warned against the building of chicanes and the erection of railings in the city before people were killed. These are dangerous and we need to reconsider them. The debate should include discussing speed limits, an issue that was ventilated very intelligently on all sides of this House. Perhaps the Leader could confirm that the Government is proposing to introduce legislation to permit British commercial companies to be involved in operating speed cameras. That is something we should think about. The British experience has been negative in this regard. Since commercial companies have begun controlling these cameras, there has been a negative impact on road safety.

Perhaps the Leader will pass on my next point to the Minister. We have previously discussed the question of inconsistencies in speed limits, mentioning in particular the Stillorgan dual carriageway. There is now a new speed limit of 30 mph, reduced from 40 mph, on the dual carriageway. It was found that this had not even been done properly within the council's own by-laws and all the fines resulting from this new speed limit have now been reversed by the courts. If we are to have respect for the law, we must see consistency in speed limits.

We have been monitoring events in the Middle East. I ask for another debate on this matter, particularly as the International Court of Justice in The Hague is considering the issue of the wall being built by the Israelis. The British have said the wall is illegal but added an extraordinary second clause to the effect that it is wrong to go to the court. How morally bankrupt must one be to maintain these two incompatible ideas? During the last terrible suicide bombing near Liberty Bell Park, people got under the wall through a sewer. It does not even work. I would be grateful if we could continue to monitor the situation in the Middle East, particularly in the matter of the wall.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Sixteen Senators wish to speak in less than a quarter of an hour, so they will have to be brief if I am to include everyone.

Maurice Hayes (Independent)
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I support Senator Brian Hayes's request for a debate on law and order in Northern Ireland, which is now clearly the central problem for the peace process. There is no point in attempting to park it somewhere else. The parties must get together and deal with the matter. I do not want to minimise any of the current problems, but any transition from violence to democratic politics will be bumpy. Most historical precedents have resulted in civil war. However, we need to discuss this matter. At its core is the acceptance of decent arrangements for policing, which should take the vigilantes out of the equation.

Senator Tuffy referred to the appalling accident in Dublin city centre. I do not want to add to the sorrow of the relatives, but one thing did strike me which the Leader might pass on to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Perhaps he could explain the report that the drivers could not be interviewed by the Garda until they had been given permission by counsellors employed by the bus company. I can imagine that people may be too traumatised to be interviewed, but the decision on whether the police have access to witnesses should not be made by people employed by an organisation which may be in line for criticism.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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Some time ago I called on the Leader to invite the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs to the House for a debate on the BMW mid-term review. According to that document, there was an underspend of €680 million in the BMW region because of bureaucracy and red tape. The debate should include discussion on rural development and rural infrastructure. It is important to promote economic growth in rural areas. This is an urgent matter because time is running out if we are to spend this money. Perhaps the Leader will consider inviting the Minister to the House.

A typical example——

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I mentioned that time is short. The Senator has called for a debate.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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——in Westmeath is the Mullingar-Athlone rail line. The Minister is introducing reviews one after another. This is costing money and blocking investment in the midland region.

Photo of Ann OrmondeAnn Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, to come to the House for a debate on Saturday's horrific accident. There should be a co-ordinated plan for traffic management incorporating South Dublin County Council, Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, Fingal County Council and Dublin City Council and including input from the Minister. This is a serious matter which has not been dealt with in the past despite calls to do so. It is a matter of road safety. Everybody knows that many of the out of service buses speed along the road when they do not have to stop at bus stops. This aspect must also be examined, in addition to the problem of speeding and the ramp system. It is time we had traffic calming measures and traffic management. I ask the Leader to have a debate on this matter.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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Given that a historic two day international conference on the AIDS epidemic is taking place in Dublin Castle, it would be timely for this House to debate the issue. According to the United Nations, 1.5 million people infected with HIV will be brought to the doorstep of the European Union by virtue of the forthcoming accession. In the first half of 2002, the National Disease Surveillance Centre diagnosed 207 cases in this country. Just because this issue is not being discussed, there appears to be a general attitude that it does not exist. However, it is a global epidemic, as Kofi Annan pointed out, and I would appreciate it if the Leader could organise a debate on it.

Photo of Martin ManserghMartin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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To successfully complete the transition referred to by Senator Maurice Hayes, we need to win recognition that human rights are indivisible. I support the call for a debate. Apropos of Senator O'Toole and the price of beef in France, in Wolfe Tone's memoirs there is a discussion about what to feed the soldiers when they landed in France. Carnot replied: "They have very good beef in Ireland. Let them eat beef."

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Let them eat cake.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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It was not so expensive then either.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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I concur with the previous speakers about traffic safety. Obviously, we must await the results of the inquiries into the tragic accident last Saturday but I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Transport to come to the House to discuss road safety, particularly the problem of overcrowding on buses. People get buses from Heuston Station after their train journey and the buses are generally overcrowded. I am aware of one lady who recently asked the conductor if it was safe to travel in the bus. His reply was that if she was not happy, she could leave the bus. Luas will soon be operating in our streets in addition to the buses and cars so it would be timely to have a debate on road safety. Senator Leyden spoke about our successful website, ripoff.ie. He should also have mentioned the rip offs in the new passport charges, which have increased by €32.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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This House played an important role in bringing about the establishment of a committee under the chairmanship of the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Éamon Ó Cuív, to examine the possibility of securing official status for the Irish language in Europe. It might be helpful to invite the Minister to the House to update Members on the current position. We should also invite the Minister for Foreign Affairs or the Taoiseach to the House to discuss the situation in Northern Ireland. In recent days, the Taoiseach made a fundamental pronouncement on the two precepts that are required to advance the Good Friday Agreement. One is decommissioning and the other is the veto mentality of some sections of the Unionist community in implementing the agreement. This is a good time to have such a debate. Finally, in my contribution in support of a call for a debate on human rights last week, I said the island of Ireland should be part of that debate.

3:00 pm

Mary Henry (Independent)
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Congratulations were extended to everybody in the Department of Foreign Affairs on the important conference on HIV-AIDS which was organised as a major part of Ireland's EU Presidency. I support Senator McCarthy's call for a debate on the issue. The opinion at the conference, which I had the privilege of attending yesterday and this morning, was that it was five years too late to start debating this issue in eastern and central Europe. The Minister of State, Deputy Tom Kitt, who put a great deal of work into this conference, could lead a useful debate on the terrible catastrophe occurring in countries which will be members of the European Union in a few months.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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I join Senators Tuffy, Norris, Hayes and others in the expression of sympathy to the families of those affected by the horrific bus crash at the weekend. Two investigations into the accident have been set up and two reports will be produced. As a member of the transport committee, I have asked the chairman that the committee considers those reports when they are issued. I ask the Leader to consider waiting until such time as the reports are available before we debate the issue. Obviously, that is a decision for the Leader but it would be wrong to jump to conclusions. Dublin Bus has had an exceptional record on road and bus safety. Some of us had the opportunity to listen to a son of one of the victims on radio this morning. Although he showed great emotion at the death of his mother, he was careful and knowledgeable about the accident and did not want to jump to any conclusions. He clearly showed his support for the drivers and the company involved. We should wait for the outcome of the investigation before we debate the issue.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Now that the Government is having a further look at the electronic voting system, we plead with it to provide for the necessary audit trail. This is important in the interest of confidence in the system. If it has set its face against a full audit trail, it should, at the minimum, provide for it in a representative number of constituencies. Otherwise, we will not instil confidence in the system among the public. We welcome the amendments the Government made and the provision for the secrecy of the ballot with regard to anybody wishing to spoil his or her vote.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Is it as good as the system here?

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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It is necessary to provide at least for the audit trail in a representative number of constituencies.

Photo of John Gerard HanafinJohn Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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I support Senator Tuffy's request for a debate on road transport safety, particularly in the context of the tragic accident on Saturday. I have just returned from London where I noticed that crash barriers are installed at any point along routes where a large number of people congregate. Saturday's accident need not necessarily have been caused by a bus. A truck or car could have careered or swerved into the group. We should learn from the experience of others and take their solutions on board when looking at overall road and transport policy.

Photo of Feargal QuinnFeargal Quinn (Independent)
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I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Education and Science to the House for a debate on education with regard to three aspects in particular. First, the Higher Education Authority advised the Government in the past month to introduce legislation to enable some universities to leave the State system and be privatised. The Government will have to consider this matter and a debate on the issue should take place in the House before the Government's views are cemented in some form or other.

Second, one of the innovations of recent years was the leaving certificate applied. However, there are reports that it is now under threat because the support the Government should be providing to ensure it works is not forthcoming. The Minister spoke about the matter in the other House the other day but it is something we should debate here soon.

Third, the Catholic Schools Parents' Association has reported that it is concerned that a number of schools charge fees for assessment, which is against Department rules, and that they continue to hold assessments for places even when those places do not exist. Parents are right to be upset about this as it is in breach of Department rules.

Photo of Frank FeighanFrank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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I was taken aback by the recent survey which showed that many hospitals have a severe shortage of radiographers, especially in light of the plans outlined for MRI scans and BreastCheck. I am concerned at the statement by the director of the only radiographer training college in the country that it took a long time to get funding for extra places. It appears that the Department of Education and Science funds the college, but the director feels the Department of Health and Children should contribute to the training of radiographers. The director has written to the Department of Health and Children seven times over the past two years but has not got a reply. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister to the House to explain why this position still pertains and what he intends to do about it.

Photo of John Paul PhelanJohn Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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I noted my colleague, Senator Leyden's remarks about the price of newspapers. He did not mention the Roscommon Herald or the Roscommon Champion.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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They are good value.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Does Senator Phelan have a question for the Leader?

John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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Senator Leyden takes a global view.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Time magazine.

Photo of John Paul PhelanJohn Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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Perhaps he is afraid to take them on over their prices.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Time is almost up and other Senators are offering.

Photo of John Paul PhelanJohn Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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The Cathaoirleach is familiar with the nitrates directive. I urge the Leader to arrange a debate on this matter as soon as possible with the Minister for Agriculture and Food. Two different parts of the farm advisory board, Teagasc, are recommending conflicting levels for the application of the nitrates directive. We should discuss this matter as soon as possible with the Minister before a decision is finally made.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I support my colleague, Senator Brian Hayes, in his call for a debate on human rights and law and order, especially in Northern Ireland.

Will the Leader invite the relevant Minister in to discuss the proposed exorbitant price increase in the cost of passports? Passport costs for children aged three to 16 are being increased by 110%, which is a great deal more than the 11% being spoken about. We need to deal with the matter of stealth taxes which the Government continually introduces.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I support the call for a debate on funding for the BMW region. The Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Deputy McDaid, said in the House last week that funding would not be available for the BMW and western regions until the bigger projects in Dublin are completed, such as the Luas and the port tunnel. In view of this fact, I support the call for a debate on this matter.

I also support Senator McHugh in regard to a debate on one-off housing. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government made a big song and dance about new legislation for one-off housing, which is anxiously awaited. Will the Leader inform us when it is proposed to bring the legislation before the House?

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brian Hayes, the Leader of the Opposition, raised the issue of Northern Ireland, in particular the lack of human rights there and that Sinn Féin be called to account as to whether it is on or off the peace train. He also called for a renewal of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation. His points were well made. I hope it is possible to renew the forum.

Senator O'Toole asked if we would extend speaking time from 12 to 15 minutes for the Public Service Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill. I will extend the speaking time for the main speakers from 12 to 15 minutes and Members may share time.

I expect the Taoiseach's views on social welfare will be elaborated on shortly. We all accept this must be done sensitively, but neither do we intend to leave ourselves wide open with every other country taking steps in this regard.

Senator O'Toole also referred to Irish food being cheaper in France. I loved Senator Mansergh's intervention which we will come to. If all those years ago in Wolfe Tone's time they were talking about it being better and cheaper, plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. Things remain the same.

Senator Tuffy expressed her sympathy on behalf of her party and the House on the recent Dublin Bus tragedy. She called for a debate on traffic co-ordination involving the Minister, the Department, Dublin City Council and other stakeholders in the debate.

Senator Leyden is in high dudgeon over the price of certain newspapers and asked why some have increased while others have not. Yes, well——

(Interruptions).

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Allow the Leader to reply without interruption.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator McHugh raised the issues of one-off rural housing and job creation in the BMW region, and he asked for a debate on the status of the Irish language. The Senator's party took the first step in debating the issue of recognition of Irish as an official language of the EU and other parties joined with it. Many Members signed the petition that appeared in The Irish Times on Saturday. We will invite the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, to the House to debate the issue.

Senator Kitt raised the unofficial postal dispute. This would make a good Adjournment debate matter. Unofficial disputes are difficult to manage. Senator Norris spoke about the FARC guerrillas in Colombia. He also sought a debate on traffic management, including issues such as calming measures and the inconsistency in speed limits. The Senator also asked that debate on the Middle East be renewed.

Senator Maurice Hayes raised the issue of Northern Ireland. While he was not being critical, he also wondered why the bus drivers involved in Saturday's accident could not be interviewed by gardaí without permission from counsellors. We do not know enough about this incident and it is difficult for us to take a stand. We utterly regret the carnage and injuries caused, and the heartbreak for the families of those involved. We may have a full debate on this when the reports are published.

Senator Bannon raised the issue of rural development in the BMW region. While I have discussed this with the Minister, we have not been able to schedule a debate on it. Senator Ormonde sought a debate on transport, with particular reference to road safety and co-ordination. Senator McCarthy raised the issue of AIDS. As Senator Henry said, while it may be late, debate on the issue is certainly worthwhile. Having seen the number of countries that have sent delegates to Dublin for the conference, it is evident that people are really wakening up to the issue. The Department of Foreign Affairs should be congratulated for holding this conference. It will be one of the highlights of our Presidency.

Senator Mansergh raised the issue of human rights and sought a debate on it, incorporating Northern Ireland. Senator Ó Murchú raised the issue of the Irish language and seeks a debate with the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. As transport spokesperson, Senator Dooley expressed sympathy on behalf of Fianna Fáil Members to all those involved in the accident on Saturday. Joe Duffy is running a show on RTE Radio One about the incident. I suppose it is an interesting thing to do. However, we cannot jump to conclusions until we find the result of the reports.

Senator Coghlan raised the issue of electronic voting. We await developments on this. Senator Hanafin called for a debate on road traffic. Senator Quinn raised the applied leaving certificate syllabus. I would be sorry if this syllabus faltered as it is a terrific course that has given great leverage to students. I did not know that charges for assessment were applied.

Senator Feighan has pointed out the severe shortage of radiographers and is seeking a debate with the Minister for Health and Children. This would be a useful Adjournment debate matter. Senator John Paul Phelan raised the nitrates directive. However, this issue falls between two stools. While it relates to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, the Department of Agriculture and Food has a huge input into it. We are seeking to have someone take up this issue and debate it in the House.

Senator Cummins raised the 110% increase in the price of passports. We had a little subterranean comment among ourselves. It is not exactly a human rights issue, since if one is fit to go abroad, one is fit to pay for one's passport.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Leader missed the point completely.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I did not miss the point at all.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Allow the Leader to continue without interruption.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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Passports for sale.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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One gets a Ryanair seat cheaper these days.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Allow the Leader to continue without interruption.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Burke wants a debate on the BMW region, something for which he has asked several times. Before he says that I would not take up his point, I am doing so and endeavouring to have the Minister attend. However, we are entering into a very onerous legislative round over the next three weeks. Time for debates will, therefore, be limited during that period.

Order of Business agreed to.