Seanad debates
Tuesday, 7 October 2003
Order of Business.
2:30 pm
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, a sessional order agreed by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, to be taken without debate; No. 2, a motion which was referred to the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources and on which the committee has completed its discussions, to be taken without debate; No. 3, a motion to refer to the Joint Committee on Health and Children the subject matter of No. 14 on the Order Paper concerning the need for the trustees of Simpson's Hospital to broaden its charter to include women as well as men because its original charter of 1789 only includes males and the hospital has been in discussions with the Eastern Regional Health Authority to develop services for older people, both male and female, and to allow the borrowing of money on the security of the charity's property for the development of services in partnership with the ERHA, to be taken without debate; No. 4, statements on the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business until 5.30 p.m. and to resume tomorrow, with the contributions of all Senators not to exceed 15 minutes and on which Senators may share time; and No. 5, Oil Pollution of the Sea (Civil Liability and Compensation) (Amendment) Bill 2003 – Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken at 5.30 p.m. and to conclude not later than 7.30 p.m, with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes, the contributions of other Senators not to exceed ten minutes, Senators may share time and the Minister to be called on to reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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On No. 4, the Leader proposes to hold statements on the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse today and tomorrow. Will she clarify whether she will provide time tomorrow at the conclusion of the debate to allow the Minister to answer questions? It would be much more useful than simple statements from both sides of the House. If the Minister was to remain for an hour or so and answer direct questions from Members on the issue, it would be a much more purposeful use of our time than simple statements on the matter. I ask the Leader to consider this proposal in the context of tomorrow morning's debate.
Do Senators agree that the bravery shown yesterday on the streets of Dublin by two unarmed members of the Garda Síochána in apprehending violent criminals is an example of the kind of dedicated service members of the force perform on a daily basis? While the courage shown by the officers in question in the face of the most extreme danger was a wonderful example of the work of the Garda Síochána, it also puts in context the dangers members of the force confront daily. With gardaí having to counter criminals who use firearms at will, the notion of a civilian, unarmed police force is called into question. Members of the Garda Síochána are the people who stand between such criminals and the vast majority of law abiding citizens. Given the events of yesterday, the House should recognise their bravery.
Last week the Leader was forceful in her remarks concerning the Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, when she stated he should "shape up and stop moaning".
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Order, please. The Senator's comments are not relevant.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The House will not discuss the matter.
(Interruptions).
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Order, please. The personality of the Minister for Transport cannot be discussed in the House.
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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This relates to policy, namely, the fiasco of the Luas project, and has nothing to do with personalities. The Leader stated last week that she would seek statements from the Minister as soon as possible. Will she act on her statement? She also stated the Luas project was on budget and on time when she left office. "I do not know what has happened," she said before asking how it had all gone wrong. These are the questions we would also like to ask the Minister. I ask the Leader to ensure that statements from the Minister feature on the Order of Business on Thursday morning and that he comes before the House to confront the Opposition and the Leader.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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In echoing Senator Brian Hayes's comments about the actions of members of the Garda Síochána yesterday, we should remember that such actions have a long tradition in the force. As a young Garda sergeant, the current Garda Commissioner also faced down an armed gunman for which he received the Scott Medal. I referred to this matter on the day of Commissioner Conroy's appointment.
The public is in a state of confusion and perplexity as to who is the Government which appears to consist of the Fianna Fáil Party, the independent Fianna Fáil Party and the Progressive Democrats Party, all of which have different views of the world.
Shane Ross (Independent)
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There is also an independent Progressive Democrats Party.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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A telephone box sized party called the independent Progressive Democrats has also emerged recently. There is utter confusion in the House and among the public. It would be worthwhile if we sorted out the matter among ourselves to find out exactly where people stand.
Rather than having a re-run of the kind of problems we had on the issue of child abuse, which we will discuss later, it would be interesting to know where Senators stand on the tobacco issue. We should have a debate to allow Senators to publicly state their positions. A slíbhín, behind one's hand approach is being taken with people telling one side they favour the ban on smoking in the workplace and the other they oppose it. Let Senators place their position on the tobacco ban on the record. We will then see if the vintners will follow the builders as a group which managed to defeat the Government this year. It would be a worthwhile exercise and everybody would be happier afterwards. Let us get the matter off our chests to find out where we all stand.
Another issue to be addressed – Senator Brian Hayes got to it before me – is the question of transport. I agree with the comments made by the Leader and cited by Senator Brian Hayes. We knew what was happening when she was Minister for Public Enterprise, but we have been confused and perplexed since she left office with the issue growing more confusing by the day.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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The Leader is correct that somebody needs to shape up and questions need to be answered. I would like to hear answers to the questions raised by the spokesman for the Fine Gael Party, Senator Brian Hayes. I also have others, for example, will the two Luas lines ever meet and, if so, how will they be linked?
What will happen at the Red Cow roundabout? What will happen with the connection to the airport? What is happening with the Sligo-Limerick-Rosslare line? We knew the position on these matters when the Leader of the House was Minister for Public Enterprise. As she said, things have gone downhill since she left that office. It is time to get the current Minister into the House for questions so we will at least know where things stand. We could also inquire about the Dublin-Navan line.
The House could do worse than inform the nation where members of the Government parties in the Houses of the Oireachtas stand on the tobacco and transport issues. People should know what is going to happen, when it will happen, what it will cost and who will pay.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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It is a pity we did not have the debate that is now taking place between the various factions of Fianna Fáil about smoking—
Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
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We are not like the Labour Party.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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Our party tends not to have Ministers in a Government feeling free to express an opinion and then taking off to Spain on holidays to duck the subsequent publicity, like the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey. He is in Spain on holiday, a convenient place from which to issue edicts about smoking.
Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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It is a good place to buy duty free cigarettes.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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I will raise another issue to put this in perspective. There were ten road deaths over the weekend and approximately 100 road deaths over the three months since this House last met. There were 1,500 deaths from smoking related illnesses over the same period. When we recommence the debate about smoking, we should remember that it will kill, on average, 15 times more people than the appalling carnage on the roads.
Much nonsense is spoken about delays, consultation and unproven research. Imperial Tobacco in Britain has entered a defence in a case to the effect that it has not been proven that cigarette smoking causes cancer. The same quality of debate is being put forward by the Irish hospitality federation and, tragically, it has been swallowed by some members of Fianna Fáil. Can we sort out this smoking issue once and for all? Contrary to what many people think, I do not believe it is a diversion. It is a central issue of public health and it is time the Government defined its position, conveyed that to its members and told those who do not agree with it that there is a place on the backbenches for them. They cannot have one foot in Government and one foot in the vintners' organisations, depending on their geographical location.
I join in the tributes to the two brave members of the Garda Síochána. It was an extraordinarily courageous action, which reflects extremely well on the quality of the people who are joining the force. However, I dissent from any suggestion that the next step in this case should be to arm gardaí. Is it now the policy of the largest Opposition party that members of the Garda should be armed?
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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That will result in more Garda deaths, not fewer. The evidence—
Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, nobody on this side of the House mentioned that. I said we were seeking a debate on the matter. To suggest it is the policy of our party is erroneous and the Senator knows it.
Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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We should have a debate on it. To float the issue and then say one is not expressing an opinion on it is not helping the matter. I do not believe arming uniformed gardaí would achieve anything. It would result in more deaths and tragedies.
I do not want a debate on transport; I am sick of debating it. I seek a debate on our infrastructure in general. Public transport is part of that, as are telecommunications. We are now reconstructing a telecommunications infrastructure to operate parallel to the one we sold to Tony O'Reilly and company some years ago, which is now being run down even as the assets are being stripped from what used to be a fine State company. There is a report from the OECD which suggests that, with regard to public capital accumulation, this State is at the bottom of the list. That means that we have the worst infrastructure and the worst investment in the OECD. There cannot be any future prosperity in the State unless we sort out all our infrastructure. I urge the Leader to allow a good, detailed debate with a serious Minister who knows what is Government policy – which is a difficult one. That Minister must tell us what the Government will do about it.
Michael Brennan (Fianna Fail)
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I too wish to be associated with the Leader of the House in expressing our sincere thanks and gratitude to the members of the Garda Síochána, especially the two brave, unarmed gardaí who carried out their duties at Goatstown yesterday. The pictures on television from the village of Adare last night brought back sad memories of when two gardaí, Detective Garda Jerry McCabe and his partner, Detective Garda Ben O'Sullivan, were shot there. One shooting was fatal. The people of Adare in County Limerick expressed their sincere gratitude to the gardaí for the work that they carry out daily on our behalf. I also express our sincere good wishes and prayers to Charlie Chawke for a speedy recovery.
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I too compliment the Garda Síochána on their fine act of bravery yesterday, which was performed with very limited resources. A promise was made in the run-up to the last general election that we would have 2,000 extra members of the Garda Síochána on the streets. We are still waiting for them.
On planning, I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to the House to debate the issue. The Planning and Development Act 2000 seems to be flawed in the light of statements made by the Taoiseach at a recent Fianna Fáil seminar in Sligo regarding loosening restrictions on one-off housing in rural areas. We have drawn that to the Government's attention time and time again. There seems to have been a change of heart on the issue and I hope it is not another false promise in the run-up to the local elections next year. We have had a great deal of dithering from the Taoiseach and the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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It is important that we have a debate on this issue.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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When we get a debate, the Senator can make the same points.
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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On another issue, the Minister for Transport reported yesterday that he would spend €10 million replacing speed signs throughout the country. That would be ridiculous. It would not be wise at a time of such cutbacks in the health area. Cash starved health boards up and down the country are cutting home help services, the carer's allowance, community initiatives and so on. It is important that the Government gets its act together and that we have a debate on this issue.
Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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Following what Senator Bannon said, it was my intention today to ask the Leader for an urgent debate on planning. Throughout the last session there were several calls for a debate on planning and I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to the House for a good, clear, detailed debate on the issue. There is now a gross level of inconsistency and downright subjectiveness in each planning authority. We must address it now. It is time that the gloves came off and we dealt with the consistently obstructive influence An Taisce is having on this nation regarding commercial property and domestic dwellings, particularly in rural and regional Ireland.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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At the outset, a Chathaoirligh, I wish to say how good it is to be back with your good self.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Senator have a question on the Order of Business?
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Many moons ago, the Government promised an inventory of State assets with a view to discovering what assets might be surplus. During the summer there was media speculation about land sale plans in the Office of Public Works. I raised this matter before—
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Did the Senator raise this with the Leader?
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Yes, I am asking the Leader if she will arrange a debate with the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, on this matter.
We all know of the great work done throughout the country by community employment schemes. There have been cutbacks in these schemes already and there is uncertainty about further cutbacks. The Leader should clarify the situation as I am unsure of Government policy in this area at present.
I join with others in complimenting the gardaí on the outstanding bravery they showed yesterday. We all commend and salute the force on that. I also support the remarks of Senator Bannon and Government speakers on planning. There is huge inconsistency throughout the land and the country is too small for such lack of uniformity.
Camillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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I have raised the issue of school bullying in the past and now do so again. This problem will not go away and recent events not far from where I live led a young person to the ultimate step of taking his own life. I am not going to name names but this matter has been brought to my attention on more than one occasion. Two members of my family have suffered from this in the past and it must be dealt with effectively. There is no easy solution to bullying, but it will have to be put at centre stage here and debated in such a way as to find a suitable resolution.
I subscribe to the view that planning is an extremely difficult area of public life. At this point most counties, including mine, have recently concluded reviews of their county development plans. However, all those county development plans should be reviewed. A nit-picking process is in place with planners around the country and, in one case close to home, a word has caused a delay of three months. I could go further.
On the smoking ban, I will be supporting the Minister.
Camillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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I will tell Members why. I am told on a regular basis that smokers have rights but there is an accompanying obligation as well. We all have obligations to each other. As someone who worked in a pub and in a psychiatric hospital, where smoking is a very important part of the everyday life of patients, I have first-hand knowledge of the implications of the practice of smoking. I will be supporting the Minister without apology.
Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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I support Senator Glynn's remarks about the smoking ban. I do not accept there is a right to smoke at all. It is not a right that lines up with the right to free speech or freedom of expression. As Senators have pointed out, we have a duty and obligation as legislators to ensure we put in place an environment free of a serious hazard we know to exist.
I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Health and Children when he will publish the Hanly report, the third of three reports commissioned in the last few years by the Minister on the future of the health system. The Hanly report has huge implications, particularly for small hospitals, including one, by coincidence, in my constituency. At the weekend, the Minister made remarks about Nenagh hospital outside of the context of the publication of the Hanly report. This is an extremely serious matter and the report must be issued urgently. I ask the Minister to end the delay with this, to bring the report forward and to ensure we know where we are going. Perhaps the Minister will let us know if he knows where he is going with the future of the health service.
I ask the Leader to arrange time for a debate on a report from a committee of which I am a member, the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources. It is a report on local radio and I seek a short debate on it because, as its author or rapporteur, I would like to hear the views of Senators on the future of local radio as the committee is making recommendations to the Minister. It is No. 15 on the Order Paper and I would be grateful if the Leader could arrange a debate in the relatively near future.
There have been many attacks on An Taisce in this House, today and in the past, but an important point should be made about the body. First, its members are extremely committed and dedicated people, operating on a voluntary basis in communities around the country supposedly on behalf of An Taisce but, in reality, on behalf of their communities. An Taisce has a role and the fact that the leadership of An Taisce has overstepped that role should not negate or undermine the valuable contribution being made by individuals on the ground. Yes, we have a problem with planning but we should recall that it is the Seanad and the Dáil which passes legislation jointly as the Oireachtas—
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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There is a call for a debate on planning and the Senator can raise those points then.
Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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I look forward to it but it is important that individual members of An Taisce, who are doing a difficult job in an exemplary way, are defended.
John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)
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I will start where I finished during the last session by appealing to the Leader about the Cork School of Music. When I spoke here before we broke up for the summer recess, I pointed out that we would face industrial action in the autumn. That industrial action has commenced and is still unresolved. I appeal to the Leader to get a definitive direction and answer from the Minister for Education and Science as to where we are going with this matter.
I also support the calls for a debate on planning. We sought this in the last session and I hope we can have it this time. It is totally confusing to see a local authority granting planning permission which is upheld by an inspector from An Bord Pleanála, only for the board to overturn that on foot of a handful of objections. A debate is needed and I hope the Leader facilitates it.
I also seek a debate on the Middle East. We spoke about this before the recess. There has been an escalation in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in recent days, particularly with the attack on Syria, and the issue will escalate in the months ahead. As we approach our Presidency of the EU in the new year, it is important that we set out our stall and help generate a debate in Government on this issue.
I join with previous speakers in congratulating the gardaí on yesterday's events. In doing so, Oireachtas Members should not forget the death of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe, which was mentioned earlier. We should not support Members of these Houses using that killing for propaganda purposes. Posing for photographs with Garda killers is an outrageous affront to Members of these Houses and to the vast majority of people who support our democratic values.
John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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I join with colleagues in requesting the Minister for Transport to come into the House to discuss the transportation system and the chaos in which we now find ourselves. I refer to the derailment of the freight train in Cahir today. That should be discussed as it will have serious implications for rail transport in that part of the country.
I support Senator Coghlan's comments on the community employment schemes. During the summer we saw leaks from what is believed to be a report by top level civil servants about the possible abolition of an additional 5,000 places on community employment schemes. This was discussed a number of times before the summer recess and should be debated again, as it is an important issue which affects every community in the country.
Like Senator Minihan, I am confused by the planning situation. He expressed confusion about decisions which are reached by some planning authorities, whether they are local or national. I am confused by the pronouncements of the Taoiseach who should clarify his stance on planning. He was head of the Government that introduced the Planning and Development Act 2000, which restricted planning, and he said a few weeks ago that he wants access to planning in rural areas freed up.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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A call has been made for a debate on planning. There will be no material for such a debate given the way a debate on the matter is taking place on the Order of Business. The Senator can raise those points during the debate on planning.
John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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Senator O'Meara raised the issue of the fifth report of the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources in regard to local radio. A number of local radio stations currently find themselves in a precarious position. I join the Senator in urging the Leader of the House to facilitate a debate on that issue as soon as possible.
Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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I too support the call for a debate on planning, particularly in the context of rural development. The Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, was present for a debate on this issue during the previous session, but the public debate has broadened considerably in the meantime. This week alone two radio programmes featured this issue as well as "The Late Late Show" and many other programmes. It is important to be clear about where the fundamental problems lie. Some 110 county councillors attended a conference on this subject in Caherciveen last weekend. The Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, once again outlined the Government position. In fairness to the Taoiseach, the record should be set straight. He did not make his first statement in Sligo, he made it several months prior to that in Maam Cross when he outlined his position and that of the Government.
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is pandering to the people in Connemara.
Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, has proposed that all parties involved in this issue should meet around the table for discussions—
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator cannot indulge in a debate on planning now.
Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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—and that the planners should be made aware of Government policy. One of the great difficulties in this area is the number of planners from outside this country. There are currently 25 planners here from South Africa alone. I am not taking from their professionalism, but they are trained in a totally different school and have a totally different concept of planning from that which we have here. It is timely to once again have a debate on this issue.
Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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Will the Leader arrange at the earliest possible date for a substantive debate on the Comptroller and Auditor General's report of last week? Arising from his report there was much public discourse, and rightly so, and it will continue in terms of the church and State. The report indicated that in respect of many public projects currently under way and presumably being planned, there is an extraordinary overrun. Taxpayers are being ripped off on a daily basis as a result of overruns. We need to seriously examine that development. A substantive debate on this report would be helpful at the earliest possible date.
On a lighter note, in view of what is happening today in California, does the Leader believe that a recall in the Westmeath constituency would be helpful?
John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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Only if we can get Michael O'Leary to stand.
Derek McDowell (Labour)
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I wish to raise the extraordinary decision of Iarnród Éireann announced today, which was clearly taken some time ago, to periodically close down the DART service at weekends for most of the next 18 months. The Leader will be familiar with this decision because she made similar announcements on at least a half dozen occasions during her tenure as Minister for Public Enterprise. It seems extraordinary that it has taken Iarnród Éireann five or six years to use a plan, albeit a woefully inadequate one, to carry out what seems to be simple work. Eight-carriage trains, as opposed to the current six-carriage trains, will be in use. It is beyond me why it is necessary to close the network at weekends for the next 18 months to do this and I would like an explanation.
It seems that the planning issue has little to do with planning and more to do with getting votes. The proposal in that regard is a cynical and opportunistic effort by some representatives of rural constituencies to defend the perceived right of farmers to destroy the rural environment by selling sites. There is a need to introduce balance in regard to this issue when we come to debate it.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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There will be a debate on the matter during which those points can be made.
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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Will the Leader ask the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, to come into House as soon as possible to explain his decision of yesterday when he announced the first instalment of the sacking of 5,000 civil servants—
Martin ManserghUlick Burke (Fine Gael)
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—1,000 of whom are teachers or work within the education system? This announcement has been made at a time when posts that have become vacant in key, sensitive areas, which support people with special needs, have been frozen. If this procedure continues and yesterday's announcement is the first instalment of many more to come, where will education be in a short time under the Government? I ask the Leader to request the Minister for Finance to come into the House to explain his proposal as a matter of urgency. The effect of this measure will be felt across the public service, but education seems to have been dealt the most severe blow on this occasion.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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On being elected to this House, I frequently raised the issue of decentralisation or the lack of it. I thank the Leader for organising a worthwhile debate on this issue recently. Many statements have been made by members of the Front Bench. I have heard different statements from the Minister responsible and from other Ministers. However, one Minister issued a statement this week that a decision on decentralisation would be made before Christmas and the towns designated would be announced. People in many towns have been waiting four years to hear this decision. The Minister, Deputy McCreevy, announced four years ago that 10,000 jobs would be decentralised to areas which had previously not benefited. I would like the Taoiseach or the Minister for Finance to come into the House and outline whether such a decision will be made before Christmas 2003 as opposed to another Christmas.
Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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I support the brave unarmed gardaí who yesterday apprehended the two men responsible for a reprehensible crime. Senator Brennan is related to Charlie Chawke who is seriously ill in hospital as a result of this incident. We all know his extended family members and relations and extend our best wishes to him at this difficult time.
I ask the Leader to raise with the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the matter that people in wheelchairs will have difficulty gaining access to the electronic voting machines that will be used in the local elections next June and ask him to ensure that the necessary steps will be taken to enable such people to have the right to vote.
Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Leader agree that regarding Government proposals to shed jobs in the public service, it was made categorically clear that no teachers would be affected? The record should be corrected on this matter.
On a proposal by Senator Glynn, does the Leader agree that given that an in-depth reform is taking place within the Department of Education and Science in terms of school administration and administration of school services, the serious issue of bullying, which has existed from time immemorial, could be included in a wider debate where we would examine the progress that has been made within the Department in terms of the separation of powers between policy and administration? In that context we could have a more contextual discussion on bullying, which is an ongoing problem in schools.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Members for their contributions. Senator Brian Hayes, the Leader of the Opposition, asked if a question and answer session could be held early tomorrow afternoon on the conclusion of the debate on child abuse. As we all know, the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Dempsey, is in China with the President. That is part of his duties, where Ministers take turns to accompany the President. I understand, therefore, that the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, will be here this afternoon. I understand too that a Minister from another Department will attend the House tomorrow morning. Perhaps we can work something out with the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, when he arrives.
The bravery of the Garda has been commended by many Members. The Leader of the Opposition, Deputy Brian Hayes, did not allude to the arming of the Garda. He noted with admiration that the gardaí were unarmed when they tackled the robbers. The Senator also asked about the policies of the Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, and quoted everything I said.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator O'Toole also noted the bravery of the gardaí. He spoke, perhaps tongue in cheek, about the plethora of political parties within political parties.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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My reference was to those in Government.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, within Government. We are not little "Yes" people bobbing our heads up and down and that is no bad thing, as long as the right policy is enunciated and adopted at the end of the day.
Senator O'Toole also raised the tobacco ban issue, which we should debate in this House. Like others I will nail my colours to the mast. I am in favour of the proposals of the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, and the action he is taking on the issue. Senator O'Toole also raised the transport issue.
Senator Ryan commented on the tobacco issue and on road deaths. He pointed out that since the last time the Seanad met, 100 people have died on the roads. That is a fairly chilling statistic. The Senator also said rightly that the Garda should never be armed. He said he is sick of the debate on transport but he called for a debate on infrastructure, which is a much wider issue.
I commend Senator Brennan for the point he made so forcefully about the murder of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe in Adare. This point was taken up by others, but it is good that it was first raised by a Member from the area.
Senator Bannon raised the planning issue. The Taoiseach is clearly in line with the Fianna Fáil Party's position on the matter. County development plans are the responsibility of local authority councillors. It has always been my belief that country managers need to be sat upon very often and strongly.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator MacSharry raised the matter of the debate on planning and what he described as the destructive input of An Taisce to planning matters. Senator Coghlan said he was glad to be back and thanked the Cathaoirleach and me. I thank him, although he is gone. I had a delicious interlude with him in Killarney during the summer.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator will have to ask him. Ladies do not tell.
Senator Coghlan commented on the community employment schemes. Senator Glynn raised the issue of bullying in schools. It would be very difficult to have a template to deal with school bullying and it should be up to the management board in each school to develop polices in that regard. It is a huge and growing issue. Senator Glynn also spoke about planning and about the smoking ban. He declared himself in favour of the proposals of the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin.
Senator O'Meara spoke strongly on the smoking issue, about which I heard her talk on television during the summer. I agree that the Hanly report is overdue. With regard to No. 15, the Senator called for a debate on the future of local radio and I will try to arrange it. Apropos reports, we will have a period of perhaps two or three weeks when we will be awaiting Bills. The more reports we can debate which are meaningful to Members, the better.
Senator Minihan referred to the Cork School of Music and also called for a debate on planning. We have tried very hard to resolve the issue of the Cork School of Music. I support the Senator's call for a debate on the Middle East, which would be very useful. I also agree with his comments on the recent actions of the Garda in the light of the murder of Detective Garda Jerrry McCabe.
Senator John Paul Phelan called for debates on transport, community employment and local radio. Senator Ó Murchú rightly said that in Cahirciveen the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív, laid out the Government stance on planning and we support it. Each individual county draws up its own development plan, subject to the county council executive. That is where strong input should be made.
I must explain to Senator Bradford and to many others that we telephoned the private office of the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, to ask if it would be in order to debate in this House the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General. We put it on the initial agenda but then got a call informing us that Standing Orders did not allow us debate that report. When the select committee, on which there are no Seanad Members, makes its report, we can then debate it. I would have been very keen to have a debate on the original report.
Senator McDowell asked why the work on the DART should take so long.
Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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What about my Westmeath constituency recall suggestion?
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I do not know if I would be bothered now.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That should be ignored. It is not relevant.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Exactly. Senator McDowell asked for a debate on planning. I note again that each individual local authority makes its own decisions.
The Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Coughlan, will make a statement in the House today regarding the Laffoy commission and child abuse.
In response to Senator Ulick Burke's remarks, no teachers will be sacked. No public servant gets the sack, as the Senator so bluntly put it. There are offers of voluntary redundancy for those public servants who wish to avail of it. In the UK, teachers and others get the sack. It does not happen in this country, thanks to a general consensus that people in the public service are doing a very good job. The Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, raised the matter of voluntary redundancies in his comments last year on the Finance Bill and on the budget, but it has been made clear that voluntary redundancy will not be asked of teachers.
Senator Feighan spoke of his desire for the decision on decentralisation to take place by Christmas 2003. Senator Finucane mentioned the Garda and, given the particular area he comes from, he obviously has a deep interest in the issue. I join him and Senator Brennan in sending good wishes to Charlie Chawke for his recovery. The pictures of the robbery on television last night were shocking.
Senator Fitzgerald raised the bullying issue and also that of separating administration from policy making. The Department of Education and Science hopes to be more involved in policy making rather than in administration at local or national level.
Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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Will the Leader consider the issue of electronic voting machines?
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator must excuse me. I will consider that. Can the Cathaoirleach tell us if we are currently tuned in?
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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We are not. The equipment is installed and we will be discussing it later.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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We are talking about electronic voting for the disabled.
Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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I am talking about electronic voting in the election.
Order of Business agreed to.