Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, a motion whereby the subject matter of motion No. 14 on today's Order Paper is being referred to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, to be taken without debate; No. 2, statements on the report of the audit of health structures and the commission into health funding report, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 2 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes and on which Senators may share time, the Minister to be called upon to reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of statements at approximately 1.50 p.m.; No. 3, Arts Bill 2002 – Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken at 5.30 p.m. and conclude not later than 6 p.m. – there is one Goverment amendment; and No. 15, motion No. 32, to be taken from 6 p.m to 8 p.m. In a change to the Order of Business, there will be a sos from 2 p.m. to 5.30 p.m. Let me explain the change to the House. When a Bill is not initiated in the House, we often take the example of how it proceeded through the other House. During its passage through the other House the Arts Bill evoked much lively comment and many amendments which were very lengthy. That does not appear to be the case in this House where clearly we appear to be more culturally minded. We have been able to deal with the Bill very quickly with the result it does not need the time allocated.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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I will enter into direct negotiations now with the Leader of the House across the floor of the House. It is not acceptable that the House should not sit between 2. p.m. and 5.30 p.m. This is a full working day. While I understand the Leader's remarks regarding the Arts Bill, we could fill the gap. There are two possible solutions. First, we could bring forward our Private Members' motion to 2 p.m. or 2.30 p.m., subject to the availability of the Minister, and debate the issue of neutrality, on which more Members would be able to speak during the afternoon. Second, as the Leader is aware, the International Court of Arbitration yesterday made a very positive ruling in respect of the Government's rights regarding consultation on Sellafield. I suggest the House debate that issue today, particularly as there is now a three hour gap.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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There will have to be a natural sos, perhaps between 2 p.m. and 3 p.m.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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I accept that there will have to be a natural sos but it is not right that the House will not sit between 3 p.m. and 5 p.m.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I agree.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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I am proposing two options, the first of which is to bring Private Members' Business forward. The second option is to debate, without a Minister in the House, the opinion released by the UN Permanent Court of Arbitration yesterday. There is all-party support for the Government's role in demanding better consultation with the UK Government in relation to Sellafield. I would like to make a direct proposal to the Leader. She knows from her work with the British Irish Inter-Parliamentary Body that the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland, the statutory agency which deals with nuclear safety, has an immediate right to act as an observer at Sellafield and give impartial and independent evidence to the Irish people on a daily or weekly basis, as it sees fit. The Leader knows that the International Atomic Energy Agency is already present at Sellafield. I ask the Government to demand that the UK Government grant observer status at Sellafield to the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland immediately in order that it can issue its report to the Government and the people, as it sees fit.

I ask for the Leader's support for either of my proposals relating to two issues that can be debated earlier in the day.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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I would support either of the two suggestions made by Senator Brian Hayes and be amenable to a proposal of a similar nature. It would not look good if the House did not sit for that time.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I agree.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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We should put our heads together to deal with this problem.

I would like to mention some issues that have been raised. Senator MacSharry spoke yesterday about the various groups which have blocked positive development. There is a case for dealing with such issues. Senators on the Government side raised the possibility of a deeper debate on transport. We should look at the position in Irish life of organisations such as those mentioned by Senator MacSharry which are supported by State funds and often stand in the way of important development.

Senator Kenneally raised the issue of fisheries yesterday. I ask for the Leader's support on this matter. The Deputy Leader is interested in fishing of a different type. When fishing rights were granted to landowners in the last century, an unscrupulous and greedy landowner in the Kenmare area managed, through a process of mealladh, bradadh agus bagairt, to get the Parliament in Westminster to pass an Act which changed the name of the Kenmare estuary to the Kenmare river. This meant that fishing rights from the town of Kenmare to south of the Sceilig were given to an unscrupulous landowner. The legislation is still in place and continues to prevent those involved in the fishing industry from fishing in the area which is not included in the Irish Box or the Shannon rights.

I would like the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to outline the process that needs to be pursued to bring about change, for example, by means of reforming or amending legislation, and to ensure fishing rights in the Kenmare area are restored to the fishing industry. This issue does not involve the European Union as it is something we can address in this House. It is absolutely disgraceful that this has been a problem for many generations. There were many discussions on the issue about ten years ago and I do not know the reason action was not taken at that point. I would like the Minister to indicate how this matter can be addressed in a proper, fair and equitable manner.

Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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I accept that the Leader of the House could not have been aware of the level of amendment of the Arts Bill. The fact that it was amended to such a great extent in the Dáil meant that it came to this House in a form satisfactory to us. The level of debate in the Dáil meant that we were quite happy with the Bill. The Leader of the House wanted to provide sufficient time for discussion of it and could not have anticipated what was to happen.

The additional time available to the House provides a good opportunity to debate a number of issues raised by Senators such as planning. I ask the Leader to consider allocating time for a discussion of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform's proposals for changing the way in which tribunals are run, although I do not think it will be possible to do so today. The Minister has suggested that there could be private hearings, following which an eminent judge would deliver a conclusion. The proposals have been made in the light of the fact that certain tribunals, particularly the Flood tribunal, have been in progress for so long. It would be useful for the House to have a general discussion on the principle of how we examine issues of major public concern. It is clear that the tribunals as currently constituted are causing problems in certain respects. This House has always been afforded the opportunity to discuss the reports of various tribunals and it is important that we discuss the principles of any new legal framework before it is brought before us. The Minister should come to the House to set out his thoughts on the matter beforehand.

The rights of persons with disabilities is another issue that could be discussed this afternoon, particularly in the light of the proposal in recent days for the appointment of an ombudsman for people with disabilities. We should consider whether such an appointment would represent the proper framework for progress. This is another area that could be discussed this afternoon or at another time.

Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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I wonder if the Minister for Transport can come to the House before the recess to discuss the financing of the national roads programme, including the charging of tolls. If possible, the Minister might outline the cost benefit analysis and details of the letters he has received from the Irish Road Haulage Association about how congestion is costing millions, if not billions, of euro. Perhaps we are all wrong and it is not worth €4.90 to avoid waiting in a queue in Drogheda for 30 minutes. One will pay four times that amount, as a private motorist, to pass through a toll bridge on a French autoroute. I have seen few more ridiculous protests, to be frank. I presume that the new toll-free stretch of road which will open tomorrow will not be boycotted. The benefits of new roads outweigh the small sums involved. I am sorry that Senator Bannon is not here to debate the matter.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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He is stuck in traffic.

Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, he is stuck in Drogheda.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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We will know all about the matter when he comes to the House.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The absence of Senators should not be referred to.

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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I support the argument made by Senator O'Toole. I hope the problems in Kenmare will be examined.

It is timely, given the imminent retirement of Mr. Justice Flood, chairman of the Flood tribunal, that we invite the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the House to discuss the issue of tribunals which has been brought into sharp focus once more. Eight tribunals are meeting and it seems that some people are experiencing tribunal fatigue. I do not think that people, including Members, are following closely the progress of the tribunals. A massive amount in costs is involved and many lawyers have become millionaires as a result. Funds in many other areas such as disability, which has been highlighted in this House, could be more meaningfully spent elsewhere.

There has to be a better way of conducting the tribunal process. I remind Senators of the achievements of the Committee of Public Accounts, chaired by the late Jim Mitchell, in the space of one month – some £185 million was retrieved from the banking institutions. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should come to the House in order that we can debate whether there is a better way of expediting this process. It is farcical in the extreme that it is projected that the Flood tribunal will sit for another 15 years. I ask Senators to try to quantify the costs of the tribunal if it lasts for another 15 years and compare it to what is likely to be highlighted. If the Minister was here, we could constructively discuss whether there was a better way of trying to expedite this process, which is somewhat ridiculous at this stage.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator O'Toole for his support of the comments I made yesterday on planning, specifically in respect of the organisations which are State-funded and which persist in blocking planning. I reiterate what I said yesterday. This is a vitally important issue. If time is available this afternoon, we should use it to discuss the matter. No real preparation is required, as everyone is aware of the difficulties that exist throughout the country. These minority groups, with questionable motives, are blocking progress for the greater good in rural and urban areas.

David Norris (Independent)
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Would it be possible to have a debate on the drugs problem, particularly as it affects our cities? I have recently become aware of the development of a potential epidemic of crack cocaine in the city of Dublin, which underlies some of the poor behaviour on our streets. A special task force should be established to combat this problem before it gets completely out of hand.

Dublin has been transformed since I was young. Gangland warfare is apparently openly tolerated. I do not consider such behaviour tolerable. If possible, the organs of the State should be put into action to defeat this problem. The potential of a crack cocaine epidemic is apparent in the inner city, particularly in Parnell Street. The Garda is aware that the drug is being dealt on that street, on which there are several "crack" houses. This type of thing is just not tolerable.

The second matter I wish to raise also arose yesterday. I refer to the question of a future debate on domestic partnerships in the light of the report which was due from the National Economic and Social Forum. I said that I might refer to it again today because it was under an embargo.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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I did not realise that.

David Norris (Independent)
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However, Maureen Gaffney was interviewed on the radio this morning by Marian Finucane and she discussed it in some detail. The principal issue is that this independent body will make strong recommendations to Government that there should be legislation along the lines of domestic partnerships. As I said previously, the House could play a role in that regard. I have convened a small committee which is trying to prepare legislation.

Would it be possible to make some level of assistance available from the parliamentary counsel's office so that, at the very least, we could put our amateur effort to the test by requesting that it be scrutinised? This is quite important if we want the House to be energetic, particularly in terms of legislative proposals coming from different sections of it. If that is the case, then we should have some technical assistance because, while I am certainly not overburdened by modesty, I do not regard myself as competent in the area of parliamentary drafting.

I agree with what has been said about the tribunals. It seems absolutely insane. The Flood tribunal has been going on for six or seven years and it is contemplating another 15.

Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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There is another 15 years to go.

David Norris (Independent)
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That is incredible. I cannot believe that we are going to put up with this kind of nonsense. There is no doubt that it is a gravy train for lawyers, which is particularly unfortunate in circumstances where, as colleagues have pointed out, there are serious shortages and where ordinary people are feeling the pinch, yet we see lawyers – on whom I wish no ill – smiling all the way to the bank.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Of course they would be smiling.

David Norris (Independent)
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I really do not think that is appropriate. It will not be of the slightest use if it takes another 15 years because anybody that might be impugned will be safely buried by then.

Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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The final sanction.

Margaret Cox (Fianna Fail)
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Will the Leader invite the Tánaiste to come before the House – hopefully before the recess – to discuss the issue of our competitiveness and the difficulties that businesses, particularly small and medium-sized firms, are facing? From next February the minimum wage will be raised to €7 per hour. This will have an impact on businesses at a time when we have failed to deal with the issue of increasing insurance costs – public liability and employers' liability – and when the cost of rent and rates has continued to rise.

While we never outstripped the basic unit cost of manufacturing in Asia or the Philippines, we were at least beating that of the United States. Organisations based in the west have indicated to me that we are no longer beating the US dollar price for the unit cost of manufacturing. The implication of this is that manufacturing will be moved out of Ireland. We have not moved high enough up the value chain to be able to sustain that loss.

The Tánaiste should come before the House as a matter of urgency so that, when we return after the summer recess, we will have some idea about how it is proposed to halt the drain of jobs which, in my opinion, will happen later this year and early next year.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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I agree with Senator Finucane's comments on tribunals. What is happening at the tribunals borders on the absurd. A former politician was recently cross-examined about allegedly receiving a sum of money and the senior counsel who cross-examined him was earning twice that amount per day at the tribunal. One would question the logic behind the tribunal process. It is time we had a debate on this issue.

Maurice Hayes (Independent)
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I am sure that a statute drafted by Senator Norris would be infinitely more entertaining and probably a good deal more intelligible than most of the material that comes before us from the parliamentary counsel's office. We should encourage some improvement in the language used in drafting legislation, which has become enormously technical.

I am aware that we are making suggestions for debates. I am not sure if, at this stage, we are bidding for the Leader's attention for the time that might become available this afternoon. That might depend on which Minister is available. I do not have any difficulty with the suggestions that have been made, but it would be particularly appropriate to take up Senator O'Meara's suggestion that we have a debate on disability. The Special Olympics, particularly the opening ceremony, has captured the imagination of the country and it is important that we should build on this.

The profile of disability needs to be raised and the potential and the real contribution that disabled people can, and do, make to life and the economy can be recognised. As Senator Norris said yesterday, it need not be a question of bashing the Government in regard to cuts, etc. We could have a civilised debate about the role of people with disabilities and the support that can be given to them by society.

Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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I ask the Leader, once more, to request the Minister for Education and Science to come to the House. This morning, many Members have outlined their dissatisfaction with the cost of tribunals. It is difficult to understand the persistence of the Minister for Education and Science in engaging in constant litigation, costing over €4.5 million, seeking to justify the Department's position in denying parents and children their entitlements and rights to a reasonable standard of education, particularly in the case of those with a disability. What a difference a small portion of that funding would mean to the family in County Donegal where, as reported this morning, the parents have to go to the school regularly during the day to bring their child home to provide toilet facilities. If a Minister persists in spending scarce resources on an ongoing basis, without having learned that he is achieving nothing other than pursuing his own ego, it is important that he should come to this House and give his reasons for allowing such hardship cases to go without while he provides legal teams seeking to deny people with disabilities their rights. I urge the Leader to request the Minister to explain his position in this House.

Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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I support the call by Senators MacSharry and O'Toole for a debate on planning issues, for which I have called on a number of occasions. There is great concern in this regard, particularly in my home county, Clare. Until recently, there were two agencies which had an unnecessary role in the whole planning process, one of which was Dúchas. I am delighted the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has recently made some very necessary changes. However, one group still remains in place – I refer to An Taisce, which is causing untold problems throughout the country. There is a nightmare situation in County Clare, with planning objections being made by people from outside the county.

I am not sure we should deal with this today. The Minister should be present for such a debate because legislation will be required. We must review the whole area as to who has the right to object and their reasons for objecting. The idea of somebody who lives in County Donegal objecting to a house being built in County Clare is quite outrageous. This is happening.

David Norris (Independent)
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It should be debated on the ground.

Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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There is a hidden agenda in this regard and it is about time we took it on. I would certainly welcome a debate. However, it is not a matter we should rush today. I would like to have the Minister present as legislation is required. I look forward to that debate.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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There are several Senators offering and time is moving on.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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As the issue I wish to raise is not as urgent as some of the others mentioned, I am not calling for a debate today. I refer to the looming trade war which is likely to affect the Irish and European economies in the coming year, during the Irish Presidency of the European Union. At a food conference which I attended last week, the main topic was a clash between the United States and Europe and the implications with regard to food which will clearly endanger the Irish economy. The main topic in that regard related to genetically modified foods, in respect of which there are totally different attitudes on the part of the Americans and the Europeans. If this is liable to come to a head during the Irish Presidency, we should be prepared for it.

My concern is that the Ministers concerned, the Minister for Agriculture and Food and the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, should be ready with a success story when that situation arises. Mr. Peter Sutherland managed to achieve success some years ago when he was involved in the World Trade Organisation negotiations at the time. I raise the matter because of its potentially serious consequences, the fact that it will occur within the next few months and will be an issue during the Irish Presidency.

The conference I attended last week was also attended by Bob Geldof. Senators would have been proud to hear an Irishman's attitude to the criticism of Europe and the way we treat food imports, in terms of our treatment of those who rely on exports from Africa to Europe, debarring them from entry to European markets because of our selfish attitude with regard to our economy and agriculture. While it is not a debate for today, it is an issue we should grasp during the coming months to ensure we are prepared for next year.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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There are five Senators still offering and we have only four minutes left on the Order of Business. I have given some latitude as a number of Senators offered at a late stage. Accordingly, I ask the remaining speakers to be brief.

John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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I join my colleagues in calling for a debate on a number of issues. I refer, first, to competitiveness, which is the interests of all of us, having regard to the change in the exchange rate between the euro and the dollar, high insurance costs and changing events within Europe. A delegation from the Hungarian Parliament visited the Houses of the Oireachtas last week. They are now achieving what we achieved some years ago – I see certain similarities in that regard. We must watch our position within Europe. I ask that the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment come to the House to outline her assessment of the future competitiveness of this country.

Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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I join Senator Norris in calling for extra resources to tackle the so-called crack epidemic. If we fail to tackle it, we will be open to the situation which developed in New York some years ago when it reached epidemic proportions. It was only when the users moved to a softer drug that the level of violent crime was reduced.

My main reason for speaking relates to the Special Olympics. I join other Senators in paying tribute to the volunteers and all those who joined in creating a great sense of belief and well-being. I compliment the Croke Park authorities, especially Mr. Seán Kelly, the new president of the GAA, who has shown a very progressive and open approach. I call on the Minister concerned, or perhaps even the Taoiseach, to come to this House and, on the back of this very successful campaign, outline plans for a bid for the Olympic Games in 2016. I believe this city and country are capable of this. With a confident approach, we can make a very successful bid.

(Interruptions).

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Order, please.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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I support the call for a further debate on planning issues. It has come to my notice that there is a very definite possibility of local authorities being faced with multi-million euro law suits. Consultants brought into various counties to help designate certain areas where constraints would apply are now stating in their preambles that the designations they have proposed would not stand up to legal scrutiny. County Clare is one of the counties in which there is such a preamble to the consultants' report. If consultants are saying this and a person has been refused planning permission on the grounds put forward in the relevant designation, that person can now go into court, not only to seek a reversal of the decision but also to seek compensation. I regard that as a very serious matter.

Joanna Tuffy (Labour)
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I support the call for a debate on rural housing. An Taisce has been mentioned. There are opposing views on the issue. However, while I do not agree with its views, the fault does not lie with An Taisce but in how our development plans are framed, which prohibits rural housing.

Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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There should be a quality definition.

Joanna Tuffy (Labour)
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As I said, I am opposed to the views of An Taisce. However, the answer is not on the opposite side but somewhere in the middle. We need a formula which allows for rural housing, while protecting the environment and ensuring sustainability. The way to achieve this is through the inclusion of a formula in our development plans. An Taisce wins its cases because of the way they are currently framed.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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We are getting into a debate on planning.

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
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I join Senator Ulick Burke in calling on the Leader to ask the Minister for Education and Science to come to the House to discuss the issues which have been brought to the courts by him. These are emotive issues. The issue of disability is always a sensitive one. There are balance of rights issues involved here which have legal and constitutional implications. We all acknowledge, and the Minister is acknowledging with the forthcoming disabilities Bills, that these issues must be fully and comprehensively addressed. These are also issues for the taxpayers.

We welcome the Government's decision to bring forward the disabilities Bills sooner rather than later to enable us to tease out these sensitive issues. No child, irrespective of his or her disability, should be left without a proper and appropriate education.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brian Hayes correctly made suggestions about filling the time. The leaders should meet outside for a few minutes to try to reach a formulation. I was genuinely surprised at the swift passage of the Arts Bill through the House. That caught us off guard because we thought it would take longer, based on the experience in the other House. However, as Senator O'Meara said, that may be a good thing because it may mean it has been refined. Many Members wish to speak in the debate on health. Perhaps we could extend the time for that. However, it depends on Ministers being available.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Harangued.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Order, please. The Leader to reply without interruption.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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It will be important to get the appropriate Minister.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Will the Leader use a tender process?

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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It looks like Members are bidding for the spare time, which means I am involved in a tender process. Senator Brian Hayes also mentioned Sellafield and planning issues. I said yesterday that a debate on planning had been arranged for a particular week, but the Minister became ill. I hope to rearrange that debate.

Senator O'Toole agreed with Senator Brian Hayes. He also raised the issue of Kenmare fishing rights. We will try to find out the current position. The Senator asked that the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources should come into the House for a debate on the issue.

Senator O'Meara mentioned the tribunals and the statement by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform this morning on the radio. Timing is everything. If any of us had said 12 months ago what we said in the House this morning about the tribunals, we would be arraigned and everyone would be writing articles about how awful we were in trying to impede the course of justice. However, time has moved on and the insane length of time which has elapsed has left us reeling.

As I left the office this morning a letter came through on the fax machine from the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, asking me to convey to the House certain matters regarding the tribunal. I did not have time to read it, but I will bring it to the House tomorrow. I will send it to everyone in the meantime because the Houses of the Oireachtas set up the tribunal.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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That has already been circulated.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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No. It is the information which came to the Cabinet yesterday.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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It was the letter from Mr. Justice Flood to the Attorney General.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps everyone got it. The Minister asked me to convey certain matters to the House.

Senator O'Meara also raised the issue of disability and the ombudsman idea, which has been floated. There seems to be a view on all sides that we can advance that cause in a positive atmosphere, which would be good.

Senator Mansergh asked that the Minister for Transport should come into the House to discuss a range of related issues, including the toll roads. He will be here to take a Bill, but we will try to get him to come into the House for a discussion next week.

Senator Finucane agreed with Senator O'Toole about the Kenmare fishing rights. He also mentioned the tribunals. As regards the cost of the tribunals and the money accruing to lawyers, they are entitled to their fees. Each person is available for hire. We have been told the tribunal has brought in a huge amount of money through the Revenue Commissioners.

David Norris (Independent)
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Yes.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Cox asked for a debate on competitiveness and the minimum wage. When I heard the amount mentioned this morning, I thought it was quite small. However, I understand how people in business must feel if they have to pay extra wages. The Senator asked that the Tánaiste come to the House. I will try to advance that matter.

Senator Browne said the length of time the tribunals were taking was absurd. We do not know if the minimum wage applies to students. However, we should inquire about that.

Senator Maurice Hayes mentioned the Special Olympics and asked if we could debate the issue of disability in a civilised manner. That should be possible. The games have generated a positive spirit. We are all enhanced by them. It is great to read about them, to look at them, to hear the commentators' comments and to see the joy on everyone's faces. Perhaps that will encourage us to think about what we could do to advance the cause of people with disabilities. It would be great if the games were the springboard for that.

Senator Ulick Burke brought up the case of the child with spina bifida in Donegal who cannot access toilet facilities. I am sure the Minister and the Department are attending to that problem, but I will try to get up-to-date information on that case.

Senator Dooley asked for a debate on planning. He also mentioned Dúchas and An Taisce. I understand from what I have been told – it may be anecdotal evidence – that many people who make objections are not domiciled in this country. They have an address here which allows them to make objections. People have rights. We do not want to go so far down one path that we rule out proper objections to planning applications. That is why that debate should be properly structured and we should get all the information.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Yes, we will come out now.

Order of Business agreed to.