Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on the proposed closure of rail freight and certain passenger lines and related transport matters, with 15 minutes for the contributions of spokespersons and ten minutes for those of other Senators, the debate to conclude about 1.30 p.m. and in which Members may share time.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Does the Leader consider it in order to propose that motion No. 13 be taken with No. 1? It is an excellent motion from her colleagues, the Progressive Democrats, which commends itself to all Members of the House.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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This item highlights another failing within the Department of Transport and it would make sense to have the debate today.

As we prepare ourselves for the belt tightening exercise that will occur at 3 o'clock today, can we agree that one of the few areas we need to prioritise is that of local authority housing? In the past three years there has been an increase in the number of applicants coming on to the housing list from 39,000 to the current figure of 50,000. Even in the harsh 1980s we managed to build more local authority homes than we are building now. There is a crisis in every local authority in terms of the number of people looking for local authority homes. These are some of the most vulnerable people in our society who have been squeezed out of the housing market and cannot get any kind of affordable rented accomodation. Will the Leader make this view known to the Government and provide time for a debate on the proposed steps to address the matter, which are being brought forward by the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Noel Ahern?

Will the Leader make available to the Opposition, a list of proposed legislation which she intends to introduce to the House between now and the end of this session? It would be useful from the point of view of the spokespersons, but also for all Members of the House so that we know exactly what Bills the Government is proposing.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Is the Senator proposing an amendment to the Order of Business?

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Yes. I propose that No. 6, motion No. 13 be taken with No. 1.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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I compliment Senator Hayes on reaching across the House and showing a consensual approach to discussion. It is very important to show that we can address these matters in a non-party and undivided manner in this House, which has always been open to such an approach. It gives me great pleasure to second that motion, if Senator Hayes does not mind.

John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)
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I will send all the Senators membership forms.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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It is a Progressive Democrats motion.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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It shows that we can share viewpoints and share concerns. We are not cornering all the wisdom in the market over here.

Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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That is certainly true.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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We recognise that it exists on both sides of the House and we defer on this occasion to the excellent point raised by the Progressive Democrats in terms of the number of 5 metre high trucks that are leaving the port every day which will not be able to get into the tunnel. It will take an item off the Order Paper by allowing two items to be dealt with together, which is a useful way to proceed. It is very positive that the Whips are agreeing publicly on an issue – and one which is a very good idea.

A matter was raised yesterday by Senator Finucane that is hugely important. It is a long time since we had a serious discussion on the natural environment. We have many discussions on so called green issues. There have been a number of significant discussions in the other House in recent years and this has raised awareness. We touched on issues relating to trees and birds recently. A debate on the natural environment would allow Members to show their level of expertise and that they know more about trees than only those on O'Connell Street. Yesterday's proposal by Senator Finucane should be broadened to allow people to raise their concerns about the natural environment.

I was disappointed by the Leader's response to my call yesterday for a debate on the Estimates. We plan to debate transport matters until lunchtime, it seems appropriate that we could deal with the Estimates after that. What do the Estimates mean for the national development plan, the programme for Government or the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness? The House will adjourn until next week and these questions will be asked over the weekend. It is important that we have that debate, even if it is only to give the Government Senators a chance to sharpen their knives and decide how they are to deal with this publicly. The Estimates will be published at 3 p.m. A child from sixth class could read the Estimates, they are contained in a thick book and have lots of figures. It is not a complicated or complex book but if affects all of us. I ask the Leader to reconsider and permit a debate on the Estimates this afternoon.

Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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I am interested in Senator Minihan's offer to recruit us. Given that the Progressive Democrats tried to recruit me at one time the party obviously sees itself as a very broad church.

James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I sure the Senator was the first choice.

John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)
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I think there is a call for a tribunal to investigate that.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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I do not know who was luckier.

Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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I will observe decorum and not mention the person who approached me but I will happily tell Senator Minihan afterwards.

A Senator:

Was he a member?

Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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I wish to move an amendment to the Order of Business. Before dealing with No. 1, the House should discuss the decision of the Government to renege on its commitment to extend the medical card scheme to an additional 200,000 people. This is a specific issue announced by the Taoiseach yesterday and is a complete reversal of a commitment in the Government manifesto. It will affect low income families in particular, the "coping classes" the Progressive Democrats like to talk about. It will affect people who are on the margins of being entitled to a medical card. All over the country this morning parents will be deciding whether they will buy a coat or a pair of shoes or take their children to a doctor. If Senator Lydon thinks that is funny it is a reflection of the values that Fianna Fáil have descended to.

Don Lydon (Fianna Fail)
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I was not laughing at what the Senator said, I was discussing something with Senator Ormonde.

Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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This is so important that the Senator would be better to listen to it.

Don Lydon (Fianna Fail)
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I understood the point of the Senator's earlier statement.

Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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Dún Laoghaire Harbour Authority wishes to re-erect a very pretty fountain but threats to building workers have caused this work to be halted. It was erected at a particular time and may have certain associations. I am quite certain that nobody with authority in the republican movement would authorise such threats. I believe in the Republic, one and indivisible, and I call on the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to ensure the rule of law is upheld. I call on anyone who has any influence with people who utter anonymous threats to make statements repudiating them. It is completely out of keeping with the reaching out we have seen from the Lord Mayor of Belfast, Alex Maskey. Observers are going from the Oireachtas to observe the rule of law in Colombia, we should make sure the rule of law is observed here.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Jim Higgins (Fine Gael)
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Another damming indictment of the performance of Dublin Airport was published this morning. A survey shows one third of the flights arriving or departing from it are late. That is an appalling performance for the airport of our capital city. This comes at a time when the airport has been given many extra facilities. I commend the Leader and the Minister for Transport for the provision of an enhanced terminal at Dublin Airport and putting massive investment into it. We should have an early debate on the performance of Aer Rianta and the airlines involved.

Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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I second the amendment proposed by Senator Ryan. The announcement by the Taoiseach yesterday represents yet another example of the lies and deceit perpetrated by the Government last May. The public is already angry about this.

I support Senator O'Toole's proposal to extend sitting time today to discuss the Book of Estimates. The publication of it represents one of the most significant days in the first year of the Government. It will be a very significant day for the many people who will be affected by the substantial cuts that we expect to hear. Is it the Leader's opinion that the Book of Estimates symbolically represents the Book of Genesis for the Government? It might be more appropriately called the Book of Exodus. Many people hope it proves to be the Government's nemesis.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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It is a Book of Revelation.

Noel Coonan (Fine Gael)
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I raised the issue of the postal strike on the Order of Business yesterday. Has the Leader received any indication from the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources that he is prepared to intervene in the strike, or at least appoint a mediator? This strike is having a serious impact on the delivery of post in rural areas, it is dividing families, communities and workers. It is important that the Minister accepts his political responsibility and either intervene immediately or appoint a mediator.

David Norris (Independent)
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I am surprised Senator O'Meara left out of the Book of Revelation in her recital of various books. I am glad that attention has again been drawn to motion No. 13. I know there is a certain amount of amusement and gamesmanship involved here but it is a very important issue. I am not sure that it will come up clearly. It gives the House another opportunity, which I hope the Leader will avail of, to have a more broad ranging discussion on the whole area of transport. Today's debate seems to be rather narrowly focused and that is appropriate – although I am sure some of us will stray a little. I would like to see the Dublin metro, etc., discussed at the same time as it would be more appropriate with taking an item on the Dublin Port Tunnel.

Will a statement be made today, in either House, about the discovery of uranium in the water supply in County Wicklow? People are concerned about this. From what I heard on the wireless, I am not sure whether this is naturally occurring radiation or a by-product of another more sinister activity or perhaps related to Sellafield.

James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I move the following amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 6, motion No. 12, be taken with No. 1". The motion relates to improving the safety of the rail network and increasing capacity.

Will the Leader invite the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to the House to explain how he expects local authorities to plan strategically for future years when even at this stage of the year they do not know what their budgets will be? This is a serious issue. The manner in which the Department operates on and treats local authorities in terms of funding makes a farce of better local government. Local authorities have no idea how much funding will be provided next year by central government for their budgets. Every other year local authorities were preparing their budgets at this time of the year but now they have been told to wait until January.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Is the Senator seeking a debate?

James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I urge the Leader to invite the Minister to the House to discuss the matter.

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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I have previously raised the issue of radiotherapy services. Early in 2000 the Mid-Western Health Board made a presentation to the expert review group in this area while a deputation from the board also met the group last February. Will the Leader establish whether the expert review group has reported to the Minister for Health and Children and the status of the report? I have found it extremely difficult to find out the status of the proposals regarding future radiotherapy services, which are vitally important to the mid-western region where I live.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brian Hayes referred to the level of housing output over the past number of years and it would be helpful if the issue was debated. I will ask the acting Deputy Leader to reply later on the motion tabled by the Progressive Democrats, which Senator Hayes proposed should be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business in conjunction with No. 1. His amendment was seconded by Senator O'Toole. That is a novel development and we never refuse co-operation.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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We are progressive.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Seeking consensus is the way to go about business.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Minihan will reply in due course.

Senator O'Toole made an interesting point in support of Senator Finucane's call yesterday for a debate on habitats and the environment. At a time significant numbers of directives are issuing from Europe relating to the environment it would be appropriate to have a debate. Perhaps when I speak to the Whips following the Order of Business we could schedule a debate on this issue in conjunction with a debate on European affairs.

Senator O'Toole and others referred to the Book of Estimates and an amendment to the Order of Business has been tabled in this regard. However, I made inquiries yesterday and the Minister for Finance will not be available to come to the House for a debate on the Estimates later. There is no point in all of us talking among ourselves about the Book of Estimates as the appropriate Minister should be present. He will be busy presenting the Book of Estimates.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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There is also a Minister of State at the Department of Finance.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator is correct but both Ministers will be busy presenting their proposals. The Dáil will debate the Book of Estimates next Tuesday and Wednesday. There is no point in telling fairytales because the Ministers will be busy presenting the Estimates to the public. However, I will arrange for the circulation of the relevant data when it has been issued. There is no way the Minister will be able to come to the House later given that the Dáil will not debate the Estimates until next week.

Senator Ryan proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, which was seconded by Senator O'Meara; that is a matter for the Cathaoirleach.

Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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The Leader could accept it.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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That is a matter for the Cathaoirleach, not me.

Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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No, the Leader could accept it.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should allow me to continue. He was very quick to censure a Member who was having a private few words with a colleague.

Senator Mansergh raised the issue of rebuilding the monument at Dún Laoghaire which was demolished during the hunger strikes. It would be a worthy project to try to erect it again and I hope that can happen. It is right to raise this issue in the current context.

Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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Or the Book of Exodus.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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They will not represent the Book of Exodus or Nemesis á la a letter to The Irish Times today.

Senator Coonan raised the post office dispute, which he also raised yesterday, and I made a telephone call in this regard. I was informed, as was reported in the news earlier, that Mr. Phil Flynn has agreed to meet the parties involved next Wednesday. There will be an intervention, as the Senator desired, next week and I hope it will work.

Senator Norris called for a much more wide ranging debate on transport. I included related matters in the statements so that they would be all embracing. While the Senator has a general interest in transport issues, there are specific difficulties regarding rail freight and proposed line closures, which are major issues in rural Ireland. No. 1 was tabled last week in response to these issues, which were topical then. We should take the opportunity to debate these issues later because they could raise their heads again in a few weeks. I take the Senator's point regarding the need for a general debate on transport.

Senator Bannon stated local authorities should be informed as quickly as possible about their budgets. This is necessary so that county and urban councils can plan their agendas for future years.

Senator Finucane raised the issue of radiotherapy services. In trying to be helpful, I suggest that would be a good motion to table on the Adjournment. Such motions tend to be precise and if he tables a motion on the issue, it might well generate a definite reply for him.

On behalf of all Senators, I recently invited the Taoiseach to the House. I received an immediate reply and he has agreed to come to the Seanad next Wednesday between 5 p.m. and 6 p.m., on the eve of the round table talks on Northern Ireland, which will hopefully rejuvenate spirits and minds. I am sure all Senators will be glad that he will be present to discuss Northern Ireland issues.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brian Hayes has moved an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 6, motion No. 13, be taken today and debated in conjunction with No. 1". Is amendment No. 1 being pressed?

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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It is agreed.

John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)
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I would like to comment briefly on that.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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There cannot be a debate on the matter.

John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)
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An amendment has been moved. I would like to make a brief comment.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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A debate is not allowed at this stage.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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If the Senator agrees, he can speak on the issue immediately.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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The Leader speaks for the Senator.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I will allow Senator Minihan to make a brief statement.

John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)
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I do not want to have a debate. I only want to briefly explain that No. 1 deals with freight, certain passenger lines and related transport matters. We can have a general discussion on the port tunnel as part of our debate on No.1. However, the motion we have tabled is serious and it warrants a debate when the Minister is present to answer the questions we pose.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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He will be here.

John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)
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The motion will not be moved now.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Is amendment No. 1 being pressed?

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Amendment put.

Tá

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Is Senator Ryan pressing amendment No. 2?

Brendan Ryan (Labour)
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Yes.

Amendment put: "That a debate on the decision of the Government in relation to medical cards be taken before No. 1."

Tá

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The amendment proposed by Senator Bannon, that No. 6, motion No. 12, be taken today and debated in conjunction with No.1, was not seconded in debate and consequently falls.

Order of Business agreed to.