Cathal Byrne (Fine Gael)

The Minister of State is most welcome to the Chamber this evening. I am more than happy to second this motion on behalf of my Fine Gael colleagues. It is very important that we have this conversation in this Chamber. Too often when the issues of migration, immigration and deportations are discussed, it is shot down by both sides. Extremists on both sides seem to quash any reasonable, logical and fact-based debate. It is important that in this Chamber, representative of the people, we have these types of debates. I recognise very much the contribution that people who have immigrated to Ireland make to the economy. For the 2.7 million people who are in work across the country at the moment, one in every five of them was born outside of the country. I visited Wexford General Hospital a number of weeks ago with the Minister, Deputy Jack Chambers, seeking more investment for the hospital. It is a fact right now in the country that 40% of our doctors and half of our nurses were trained overseas. Some 40,000 people came to the country legally last year and availed of work permits. They came here legally into areas of employment like tourism, hospitality and the construction sector, providing and ensuring that the needs of the economy and the need for housing, infrastructure and investment are actually being met.

However, we also have to recognise that for every 10,000 people who come to the country, it is estimated that we need to provide another 3,000 houses. The Tánaiste got a lot of criticism over the last number of weeks from certain quarters when he said that the present system of migration is unsustainable. We have to face up to some of the realities that we have at the moment. The IPAS system that we have has failed. It simply has not worked. When we have a situation in the country where it is costing the taxpayer €30,000 per year to accommodate an individual in private accommodation versus €12,000 per year in State accommodation, it cannot be said that this system has worked. I recognise the fact under the leadership of the Minister of State and of the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, that we are moving towards a State-provided model and it is very important that we do so.

Last year saw the highest number of applications for asylum the country has seen - 18,000. I recognise the fact that it has reduced this year, but if we go back to the years 2017 to 2019 the figure was about 4,000. It is important that we get to grips with where we actually are on this issue. At the moment, the approximate refusal rate in the first instance for somebody who has come to the country seeking asylum, having been reviewed by An Garda Síochána and officials in the Department of justice, is at 80%. These are just facts. This is where the system is at at the moment. I believe in a system that once an application has been approved, a person should be here, allowed to take up employment and work. The person should be integrated into our country, culture and economy. However, if a person is here under false pretences and their application is one of the 80% that are refused, then they have to be deported. If someone has gone through the process, met gardaí and officials from the Department of justice, and they have come to the conclusion that the asylum application is not valid, then it is only right and proper that the person is deported. I recognise the fact that we now have deportation flights taking off from these shores for people who have been issued with a deportation order who have not followed that through. It is important that we have to see more of that. For the approximately 3,000 deportations that have been issued so far this year, each one of them has to be followed up. An Garda Síochána and the Department of justice have to work together on this.

I also want to speak about the changes that have been made recently by our neighbours in the United Kingdom. It is very important that Ireland is not seen to be a more favourable location than the UK for anybody who is seeking to immigrate. At present, the legislation in the UK will require that anybody who has a successful asylum application have their case reviewed after two and a half years to see if the circumstances that existed when the application was successful still exist. Ireland has to follow a similar model. I welcome the fact that the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, has said that he will review these matters. It is important that our immigration system is not perceived to be more favourable than what the UK has to offer, especially given the fact that it is estimated that between 70% and 80% of asylum seekers who come into the country are crossing through the Border.

I regularly hear criticisms of the EU migration pact that are grounded in a fear that it will somehow result in Ireland being forced to take in vast numbers of asylum seekers. I have looked at the legislation, as has the Department. It has been debated and voted on in both Chambers of the House and those fears are unfounded. What it seeks to do is to make sure that anybody who has applied for asylum anywhere else in Europe is actually sent back to that country. If a person has applied for asylum once they have entered the EU and then made their way to Ireland, they can be sent back to the first country they applied in. It is very important that we have this mechanism, combined with other things like access to the European database of fingerprints, so that people who have committed crimes in other countries in Europe are sent back. My colleague Senator Kelleher referenced the fact that an asylum seeker who has committed a crime, been found guilty and has gone to prison should be deported after serving their sentence. There is a legitimate debate to be had about whether a person should be deported once they are found guilty, but I would be concerned that those people would not actually serve the full extent of their sentences were that to be the case.

I very much support this motion and I recognise the new strategy on migration that will be published next year. I urge that this strategy reflects the fact that we have a vast number of people who have come here legally and integrated, who are providing employment or taking up employment, and recognises the contribution that they make to the country. It should also recognise the need for English language classes to be made available and that, for a migration system to work, there also have to be deportations, and sufficient investment should be put behind it to ensure that is the case. I am very happy to second this motion to the House this evening.