Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)

I thank colleagues for their contributions and constructive input. I think we are all of the same view here. We all want to ensure the commission is set up as quickly as possible. We all want to ensure that survivors get the answers they so rightly deserve. We all want to ensure this happens as quickly as possible and in a way that is survivor centred and trauma informed. That is at the heart of everything we do. It is an issue of profound societal importance. It touches almost every family and every one of us here through an individual we know, because of our own experience or through a relative in the past. Whether we have children, grandchildren, nieces or nephews attending school or about to attend school, this is something that touches every family and every community the length and breadth of the country. Therefore, it deserves the kind of response we are providing here with the commission of investigation and then the further work with redress.

The sexual abuse of a child the most egregious breach of trust. Senator Ruane spoke about finding the words. Yesterday in the Dáil, I struggled to find the words to explain how I feel and how many of us feel about this crime. It is the most egregious breach. It is the most despicable and sinister act that anybody can commit against a child. For it to happen in a setting where a child should be safe and secure, and for it to be perpetrated by an individual in a position of power who should be caring for them and nurturing them, makes it all the more sinister. That is why it is so important that we look at our response to understand exactly what happened and why it happened. Importantly, we need to do everything we can to ensure it can never happen again. I believe that significant progress has been made in that regard and that schools are completely different places from what they were only a few years ago. There is always room to improve and always more that can be done. I am absolutely committed to that in my role as Minister for education.

The commission will investigate and report on the handling of concerns of historical child sexual abuse for the very clear reason we are not seeking to establish whether child sexual abuse occurred in school; we know what happened. There are people who have been convicted and others who should be convicted, but many have passed away. We now need to know why it happened for so long. What did people do? What did they not do? How did people actually support others to continue this abuse? That does not just include those who are teachers in the schools, but also those who came to the schools who committed abuse and those who turned a blind eye in the various institutions when this happened.

As Senator Scahill said in his opening remarks, we all know wonderful people and teachers in religious orders, in congregations and in schools. Some of them are fantastic people. This is not in any way an attempt to tarnish everybody with the same brush because there are many people who are appalled at what happened and want to see those who are responsible held accountable. This is not anti-Catholic, anti-Protestant or anti any other religious ethos. It is anti child abuse. It is about making sure we get to the answers that survivors deserve to get to.

Colleagues have asked why physical abuse is not specifically mentioned and why it is not part of this. The initial scoping inquiry was very much focused on sexual abuse in our schools. It is a challenge for survivors in particular. That is not to say this is for survivors or because of them, but if we are to get answers for survivors, those who are victims of sexual abuse, where it always has been and will always be a crime, we need to do so in a manner that responds effectively. If we were to expand beyond that to physical abuse, given that we have had changes in law where corporal punishment was allowed in the past, I believe this inquiry would go on for decades. It is not a reason not to do it, but our scope here is very much focused on child sexual abuse in our schools and how we get answers for survivors as quickly as possible. That is not in any way to diminish the fact that some people were violently abused and assaulted in schools, many of whom then also faced sexual abuse. I do not want to diminish in any way what happened there, but the focus must be on sexual abuse in schools.

Many of the schools were special schools and many of those children were unable even to communicate what happened to them. It is important that this commission is accessible to everybody. Senator Ruane mentioned the calls by Inclusion Ireland to ensure it is inclusive. Obviously, we went through the terms of reference very clearly with the Attorney General to make sure it is accessible to everybody.

The commission will strive to be as survivor centred as possible, consistent with fair procedures, and will promote clear communication and transparency to allow survivors to make informed choices as to whether to engage with the commission. It will support survivors at key stages of the process, including emotional and psychological support. It will support those with additional needs to facilitate an accessible and inclusive process that is trauma informed at every step of the way and it will take practical steps to mitigate the risk of retraumatisation.

Before any survey is even sent out, the first step will be to try to understand how many people may come forward. The commission will engage with survivors. I am sure it will also be engaging with Inclusion Ireland to ensure that in establishing the survey and in setting out how the victim survivor programme will work and how we engage with survivors throughout, all of these concerns are taken into consideration. This is very clearly underpinned by the terms of reference. I am very clear and having spoken to the chair on a number of occasions he is very clear that this must be accessible to everybody, including those who are in prisons and those who are not perhaps able to communicate by sitting in front of a person so to speak. They need to have a way to be able to engage in this process as well.Regarding the survivor-centred and trauma-informed approach, I take the point Senator Boyhan raised that those supports need to be available now. We have worked very closely as a Department with One in Four as an organisation. It is very much engaged in the development of this process and making sure it can also provide those supports. We know from the publishing of the scoping enquiry last year that the number of people who came forward increased and the number of people who came forward to the gardaí increased. Any time there is a discussion or announcement of this kind, it raises something in people and, thankfully, many more are able to come forward. We need to ensure the supports are also there for them.

Memorialisation was touched on. It was clear from the scoping enquiry that there is no one particular view on how we deal with this important aspect of everything we are discussing here today. The commission will hopefully help us to inform what this will look like.

It is really important that we get redress right. It is important where there is redress that those who are responsible - not just religious orders, but institutions as well - are held accountable, which also means financially. There is more work to be done to understand what is available within the institutions and whether that is financial assets or other types of assets. It is important to acknowledge that some institutions and orders have come forward and we need to ensure everybody plays their part and engages here. We will engage in good faith, in good spirit and in a way that is appropriate with the orders and religious associations. It is important everybody plays their part. I have to be clear on that.

With regard to some of the other questions and issues raised, the gardaí will engage with the commission in the way it has previously throughout the scoping enquiry. In my previous role I was very aware when the scoping enquiry was published last September that there was an increase in the number of people who went to the gardaí. The work of the commission does not in any way interrupt or detract from the gardaí still having a clear role to ensure those who are responsible are held accountable. It will work with the commission in doing so and will ensure that happens.

Regarding interaction and the terms of reference Senator O'Reilly mentioned at the outset, we had looked at making the interpretation more detailed in setting out what child sexual abuse is, but it was very clearly set out, as it currently is now, through engagement with the Attorney General to ensure every child is included here. We are ensuring that every kind of interaction involving the sexual abuse of a child - regardless of whether it was a member of a religious order, a teacher, a lay person or someone who came to the school once a week, and regardless of whether it was sexual interaction, rape or a photograph being taken, because we know something like that was happening as well, with photographs being taken and passed around - is included in it and not excluded. The language is very carefully worded to ensure every child who was subjected to any type of interaction for sexual gratification by any person in the school - regardless of who they were or how often they were there - can be included in this. It is important for people to understand that is why those terms of reference have been set out in that way.

Finally, I will finish as I started by acknowledging all survivors. Many people have touched on this. We talk about those who have come forward. I acknowledge Mark and David and so many others in the past and recent past. I also acknowledge those who cannot come forward for whatever reason, who cannot speak and who may never come forward to this commission, even if it is anonymous. I acknowledge them and their unbelievable bravery. As a Government, we are doing this, and everything we do, for each and every one of them. Certainly, for my own part as Minister, they will be front and centre in this process at every step of the way.