Rónán Mullen (Independent)

I welcome the Minister.

I welcome the inquiry and wish the judge well. I hope the process will contribute to the processing of pain from past injustices by survivors and to their getting the justice they deserve.

I am glad this commission has a broad remit to include all schools. I understand the scoping inquiry grew out of the brave testimony by the Ryan brothers and so on, but it was harmful that the State and original scoping inquiry confined itself to religious-run schools. We have to move beyond the black-and-white narrative sometimes preferred by politicians. There could be a public discussion of this. Out in society there is a more textured and complex narrative, where for example there are many people of faith who want to see a full measure of justice, compensation and redress, where appropriate, where there was abuse or a failure to deal with it and so on, but at the same time reject any demonisation of religious-run education as a category in itself. That problem was contributed to by the State's inappropriate choice of focusing exclusively on religious schools. It contributed to an already unhealthy demonisation of religious-run education, coming sometimes from anti-Catholic and other motives.

Saying all that, our first priority must be those who were abused and their entitlement to tell their stories, be heard, be believed and get justice. Much is to be expected from religious-run schools, and they should certainly be leading the way in compensation. I understand many have preceded the State in their efforts to do the work of redress. It is something that Government figures do not often acknowledge or acknowledge at all.

There may well be parts of this story that show there were unhealthy aspects of a religious culture of authority or decision-making in boarding schools. Time will tell if that were the case. However, even if it were part of the story, it is never the whole story. We have heard eloquent commentary from others here that this is a problem that has to do with all of society. It is a problem to do with wherever authority is exercised by some people over others. Therefore, I hope we can find a way to do justice without demonisation. It should be possible, while condemning everything that was wrong and demanding justice, never to forget to mention the good, untiring, selfless contributions made by many religious congregations and individuals who were exemplary. That should never be forgotten or left out.

The State could too easily in this set itself up as the adversary of religious orders and trusts in education. I should declare an interest here. I sat on the board of one of those trusts for almost a decade in the past and I know the good work they have done. People often describe this situation as one where religious orders pushed their resources into trusts so they could somehow escape accountability for wrongs. They put resources into these trusts because of the decline in vocations. They want to continue to provide education, which they have done for so long to the benefit of the State and from which countless people have benefited and which many people still want. This is part of the complexity everyone must face up to.

It is easy for politicians to spend taxpayers' money, set themselves up in judgment and say they are going to go after religious orders, but the law must be followed. People are entitled to access the courts and to their constitutional rights. There should be an acknowledgement, as I said, of where the religious who have an obligation to redress wrong are already doing it. They will be looking carefully to see whether there is a trustworthy dialogue partner in the State or is it just opportunistic politicians who want to get a cheap grace by being seen to be the loudest in their condemnation of others, which is always an easy task.

All that complexity is in there as we seek to put the rights of victims of past abuses at the very top and to tell the truth in a wholesome, holistic and comprehensive way in our society. We must draw a distinction between situations where past injustices occurred and have not been accounted for and situations which for example may have occurred in mother and baby homes where a number of reports have not found evidence or much evidence of abuse and wrongdoing.Agents of the State have said they want to extract millions of euro from the Legion of Mary, which was exemplary in trying to keep mothers and babies in the past. That is the kind of thing that causes many people, including many people of faith, to distrust politicians and the State and to say they are not being fully honest brokers in the way they are dealing with this problem. While we all must unite in getting justice, including justice from religious orders where they failed in their responsibilities, let there not be opportunism here. Let there not be a seizing on the latest popular political agenda at the expense of the truth and at the expense of a full measure of justice to all.