Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)

I wish the Minister a good afternoon. I welcome the commission of investigation into the handling of historical sexual abuse. I welcome the fact it is day and boarding schools and that it is religious and non-religious and it covers all schools. It is not before time. There are many people waiting a long time to air their stories, to be listened to and importantly, to be believed. It is really welcome there is now a format for doing that.

I commend all those who bravely spoke out. It cannot have been easy for them. I also acknowledge the many who were too traumatised to speak out, or are still too traumatised to speak out. We cannot forget about those. It is important they get the supports to engage with the commission. I also want to remember those who are no longer with us because many, unfortunately, took their own lives through suicide as a result of the damage done to them as children when they were abused in schools. The abuse has had long-lasting effects such as suicide, mental health issues, marital breakdown and addiction issues. There are so many ways it has negatively affected people's lives. I welcome the survivor engagement and the emotional and psychological supports provided to people who engage in that process. As many as possible should be encouraged to engage. I echo the call to make sure everything is accessible to people because unfortunately, we know people in special schools were affected by this. Many may have literacy difficulties or other disabilities and we have to make sure that everybody can be reached.

The word historical sometimes suggest that this happened a long time ago. Unfortunately, it is not that long ago. Only last year I talked to a young man who was only in his 30s. He was sexually abused in his primary school by a priest or a brother. He did not tell anyone. He was full of anger. He said when he went to secondary school, he treated all his teachers with mistrust. By his own admission, he said he was extremely difficult to work with in school. He said he was full of anger and missed a lot of school as result. As he moved on in life, his abuser came forward himself and confessed to the Garda about all the boys he had abused in the school. The Garda reached out to this man and his family and that was the first time they were aware there was abuse. That sent him spiralling into another form of abuse where he engaged in drug use and ended up homeless here in the city.

Thankfully, when I talked to him, he had received help and was making his way back. He was dealing with it and getting counselling and support. He told me he was in a shop one day and he saw his abuser in the shop. He said he was an adult standing there and the abuser was an old man. He said his legs still went to jelly and he could not go near him. He could not confront him and he actually hid behind a shelf so he would not meet him. That was the effect that man had on him and so many more. The emotional and psychological supports are so important.

We know the abusers are the guilty ones, ultimately, but so are those who knew this was happening and turned a blind eye, so are those who helped to cover up the abuse and so are those who allowed people to be moved from one school to another so they could continue their abuse and said nothing. It is welcome that everybody will be investigated by this commission. I am aware that some people have stated physical and psychological abuse are not included in this. They cannot be included and they are not within the terms of the commission. However, can something be done for people who suffered extreme physical abuse in school? Sometimes on Thursdays when I leave the House and drive home, I listen to the Joe Duffy show. While I would not normally listen to the Joe Duffy show, after the scoping inquiry was published last September I listened to it while people were coming on and telling stories about the extreme physical abuse they received. The sexual abuse was hidden but the physical abuse was not and in some cases, it was systematic and sadistic. It was horrific. I wonder if there could be some sort of survivor engagement with people who suffered extreme physical abuse?

I am aware that corporate punishment was legal and I remember when it was legal. Children would get a slap on the hand for something they did in school. Obviously that was not correct either. We do not need adults hitting children in school. However, what some people talked about was torture and it was often the same people who were picked on a regular basis. It was psychological in some cases too, where a child who had learning difficulties would be made a show of in the class. They might be made to wear a dunce’s hat. Could something be done, even to allow those people to air their stories? They deserve an acknowledgement of the torture and hurt they went through in school and the long-lasting impact it has had on them. Redress is not part of this as it would be a parallel process but that would be welcome and needs to proceed.

Overall, I welcome this but if something could be done for those who suffered physical abuse it would be welcome.