Linda Nelson Murray (Fine Gael)

First of all, a massive hug to Senator Ryan. You were very brave when you spoke, so well done. It took a lot for you to do that. I really admire you.

David Platt said, "There is a unique pain that comes from preparing a place in your heart for a child that never comes." I thank Senator Ryan for bringing this Bill to us. It has been a pleasure to discuss this with her over the past couple of weeks. As someone who has suffered miscarriages, including my eldest daughter's twin, I know what that ache is like for thousands of women across Ireland. Pregnancy loss, including miscarriage and stillbirth, is often not openly discussed due to a combination of factors, including societal discomfort, lack of language to express grief, fear of saying the wrong thing and the belief sharing the news will somehow lessen the pain. Many individuals and couples grieve in private while feeling isolated and unsupported. On that, I think of Senator Ryan’s journey at that time, driving to the hospital, coming back and feeling so alone. Unfortunately, you often hear comments that are not supportive of loss or that are unhelpful or hurtful, like in Senator Ryan’s case and with my numerous miscarriages, such as “At least it was early” or "You can try again" or, in Senator Ryan's case, "You're highly fertile now". These types of judgment only add to the fear of discussing the loss you have experienced. It is frequently the case that a pregnancy loss is treated as something that is silently endured. You grieve through it quietly and then you return to work as if nothing has happened. Miscarriage is a real loss of a baby, but also of a future and a dream.

Miscarriage is surprisingly common, with not just one if four women experiencing it but one in four pregnancies ending in loss. Think of the number of women in Ireland who have had to endure this loss. I also acknowledge that the grieving process is different for everyone and affects people in different ways. This is no right way to grieve or to heal. For some stepping away from work and daily responsibilities helps them to grieve – Senator Ryan and I chatted about that – and to try to regain a sense of control. It was different for me. Work provided a structure for me as something I had to get back into to occupy my mind, because I would go mad if I had to think about it all the time. I went straight back into work, but everyone is different in this and everybody needs to be accommodated. It is not about forgetting the pain, but living alongside the pain. As an employer, I consider it my responsibility to support all our employees, both professionally and personally. We must recognise life does not stop at the door of a building when an employee walks in, and our policies in this case should reflect empathy and a commitment to well-being, especially during one of life’s most painful moments. I hope that, even without this potential Bill, many employers would actively engage with their employees who are suffering this, but we know a lot of them cannot talk to their employers about it.

I am also acutely aware of the costs that come with running a business. We are currently faced with an increase in insurance premiums, sick day pay, minimum wage increases and auto-enrolment, to name a few. However, even with these challenges humanity should prevail. I really feel it should. Nobody should have to go through such a traumatic experience and be expected to keep up appearances in work. In this case a couple of sick days or an expectation to just bounce back is not enough.

I go back to the Bill. It proposes to amend the Organisation of Working Time Act to introduce a statutory entitlement of five days of paid leave for an employee who experiences pregnancy loss and two and a half days’ pay to an employee who is a parent to a pregnancy loss. It also proposes to extend protections under the Unfair Dismissals Acts and provide for the establishment of a confidential opt-in register of pregnancy loss under the Civil Registration Act, which is something I would like to see. The Organisation of Working Time Act is not the appropriate legislative vehicle to provide for the new proposed entitlements as it is not designed to be the initiator of new policies nor to set out terms and conditions for compassionate leave. Rather, it implements the working time directive by setting out an employee’s maximum working hours and associated entitlements to minimum rest periods and annual leave. An amendment to the existing family leave provisions or discrete stand-alone legislation providing for bereavement leave in limited circumstances would form a more suitable legal basis for pregnancy loss-related leave.

It is important to keep in mind anyone hoping to have a baby has made a plan from the moment, as the Senator said, they see that pregnancy test, the moment the pregnancy is known. It is really important to give them time to recover. I thank Senator Ryan. She is doing the right thing. I have no doubt we will get legislation and we will get it right, but it is really important we look at all this in its entirety and I respect the Government’s call on wanting time to do that, but I thank the Senator for bringing this forward.