Linda Nelson Murray (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister for being here. I echo my colleague that the Minister has got off to a fantastic start and we are delighted to have him here in the Chamber.

I represent Meath West where there are a huge number of businesses across many of our towns, such as Trim, Navan, Oldcastle, and many of our villages. I am also a business owner in Navan. I am in the leisure hospitality sector, so I have first-hand experience of being in business, all the trials and tribulations that come with that and, unfortunately, meeting the odd unsavoury person. To gain a better understanding for today, apart from my own experience, I spoke to Retail Excellence Ireland, which nominated me to the industrial and commercial panel and represents more than 2,200 members.

According to a survey by Retail Excellence Ireland, 20% of retailers experience crime daily - that is one in five every day - and 41% experience it weekly. However, 60% reported abuse of their staff. Imagine coming into work to work hard for yourself and, perhaps, your family, and just because you are doing your job, you are verbally or perhaps physically abused. I had one ice cream shop owner in Navan tell me of how his staff were abused almost weekly and, in fact, one of his staff was spat at in the face.

There is growing aggression and violence towards staff, with perpetrators showing little fear of the consequences of gardaí, which is very concerning. It is especially concerning in towns like Navan, which has seen a crime high in 20 years, and Trim, which has seen a crime high in six years, when we have the lowest number of gardaí per capita in County Meath. In its report on retail crime for November 2024, Retail Excellence said smaller towns such as Navan reported significant shoplifting and staff abuse. It also found security measures are proving less effective as criminals act openly and without fear. I know this is not news to the Minister and that the Government is working on it, but it is important for me to point these things out.

Astonishingly, repeat offenders are a real problem, with many coming back and robbing or abusing staff on the same day. Some 68% of retailers did not feel supported by the Garda, but it is not the Garda's fault. The issue is not with its support but the lack of numbers of gardaí to deal with issues and the lack of punishment for offenders, which is what we are talking about today. I spoke to people in one small shop in Navan - it must be open about 40 years, a lovely family business that is a little clothing shop - who have always run the shop with one staff member but now two are required. Unfortunately, it is not because it is extra busy selling lots of clothes but to keep each other safe. Another shop owner said they live in constant fear of their staff being injured. Is that not a very sad reality?

The following extract is from the Meath Chronicle in March, regarding a much-loved local shop in Navan where a worker wrote the following:

"This evening my place of work in Navan was targeted and violently smashed in by three young men. The reason I say targeted is due to there being all female staff. These thugs threatened and smashed glass onto the staff.

"The girls working there were absolutely terrified and honestly, so are many others working in the area.

"This isn’t just about one incident, it’s about how unsafe ... [the town] has become due to the actions of a small group of young criminals who have no respect for businesses, workers or the community. No one should have to fear for their safety just for doing their job.

"We need more protection, more accountability, and real action to stop this from happening again. It’s time to stand together and make Navan safe again."

[...]

She said they have had so many incidents with the same group of young lads yet they are just getting away with it. “These lads want a reaction. They knew they were barred and the girls were trying to take them out of the store and as they were leaving she tried to close the door and one ran at it and smashed it in.

"You just don't know what they will do next - if they will pick up a of piece of glass and throw it at you.”

When retailers were asked for their top two additional supports that would be most helpful to them when dealing with the impact of retail crime on their business, 27% said legal reform for stricter penalties and 29% said an increase in Garda presence. I believe the two combined would be very impactful.

I am hearing staff are becoming fearful to work in stores due to more aggressive thefts and physical threats to staff. Sadly, I have heard of other customers who simply look on when a member of staff is being abused by a thief. Only on Monday on the Joe Duffy show - I am not sure if the Minister got to hear it - numerous shopkeepers were on speaking about shoplifting and the huge costs it has on businesses. One shop owner had five stores and said on average, approximately €50,000 per year is stolen while another said up to €100,000. One shop owner said they physically put themselves between thieves and the door and they still pass the tills. A huge issue now for these particular retail workers is accusing a person of shoplifting, getting a tirade of abuse and finally getting sued for defamation.I will read a quote one of the store owners:

You have to be incredibly careful because a lot of people now are pretending to steal in the shop so ... they can go for a defamation case. That has become a very common ploy in last 12 months. ... They will literally put stuff in their pocket, they will make sure you see them and then they will go round the back of the shop or ... a corner [of the shop] ... they'll ... [put] the item onto a shelf ... hoping that you challenge them, so you learn to be very careful to watch for those situations ... but where we are 100% sure, we will stop [them] at the door.

The reason I am bringing up this particular point is that it is another way that retailers are losing money and where staff are being abused for accusing someone of shoplifting, and it petrifies both the owner and the retailer to say anything in the first place. From this Bill, therefore, we need to bring forward a strong, tight defamation Bill. As everyone in the House knows, I am passionate about everything to do with insurance. I keep talking about it and about the increase in premiums for businesses and community groups and community centres, but this is another way that premiums will increase if we do not sort out defamation.

I welcome this Bill and I am sure the 300,000 or more people who work in the retail sector will also welcome it. However, I would like to see the term "retail worker" also encompass hospitality and leisure industry workers as well as every other person who works in the service industry.