Laura Harmon (Labour) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State. We need to be clear that investing in democracy is always a good thing but we in the Labour Party are not convinced that this is the best value for money or the most effective way to invest in our democracy. It is up to the Government to convince us and the public otherwise on this matter. This is about accountability, the effective delivery of government and cost-effectiveness.

It is worth noting that this would represent a significant jump in the number of junior Ministries from 15 in 2016 to 23 in 2025, which is a significant increase in a very short space of time. We have amendments tabled which will look at how we can increase accountability and ensure cost-effectiveness, and I will speak to those later. The Labour Party estimates that each new Minister of State would cost upwards of €500,000, and with all-in costs, we would have a starting point of €1.5 million per year or €7.5 million during the lifetime of the Government.

It may be perceived, and I believe it is being perceived if we look at the public discourse, that this could represent “jobs for our own” or keeping certain sectors or, potentially, Independents happy within a new Government. That is something that is being represented in the public discourse. We have seen a lot of discourse in recent months in regard to the waste of public money and expenditure, and we need to be extremely mindful of that. Less is not always more. We need to guard against bloating in government and we do not want too much of a bloated government structure.

This is not the kind of job creation that we envisaged prior to the election. There are other areas where we would like to see meaningful job creation and increased salaries. We just need to look at the teaching profession, nurses or gardaí. Where is the job creation there? I would argue that places like Australia and Dubai are where that job creation is happening. We need to look at other areas of job creation. We talk a lot in this Chamber, rightly so, about the need for more investment in local government, how we increase functionality and effectiveness there and whether we need more representation at that level.

I would make the point that we want and absolutely need our Ministers to succeed, whether current Ministers or any Ministers being appointed. We need them to succeed, and all of us in the Opposition want that as well. We have some fabulous former Ministers of State in the Chamber with us today as well.

It is up to the Government to prove the cost-effectiveness of this and the need for it. As I said, we have tabled amendments, which I will speak to later.