Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I echo what has been said. I acknowledge the Minister of State's acknowledgement that there is an issue that needs to be addressed and that the impact of the revised payments to councillors had unintended consequences that need to be resolved. Whatever the resolution, it is vital it is backdated to when the problem first emerged. That would only be fair and correct. It would happen in any other scenario and it is important that it would happen here also.

We are speaking about an employment rights issue and individuals who give of their time for their local community but also for their local public service, which is the local council. The role of councillors should not be denigrated in any way to be less important than the role played by any other official at management level in the county council or city council structure. It is important this occurs. We have been speaking in here but as Senators, we do not have the capacity to introduce a Bill that would place a financial burden on the State by increasing the pay of councillors. We do not have that power. If we did we would do it, but we do not have that power and let us be clear about it. It is the Government that has the power to do this. The best way to do it is, as has been proposed by the AILG and LAMA, the establishment at arm's length of an organisation that would look into the remuneration of local authority members. Linked to this should be a re-evaluation of payment levels for all employees across the local government structure, including the chief executive officers. We do not have to go too far to learn of the experience of other jurisdictions in establishing such commissions. For example, there is an independent remuneration panel in Wales, and I have to hand a copy of its annual report. It looks at the payment of councillors, which is higher than here. It is independent.The chairman is independent, as are board members, and payment levels are provided to local authority members based on the public sector pay levels of officials. That is what we should follow. The same is evident in London regarding the remuneration of councillors. In London, it is divided into five bands with the lower band starting at a level of payment in the region of £15,000 to £17,000. It increases to a level of £65,000 to £90,000. They obviously treat democracy with the respect it deserves. We need to start doing the same and we need to stop listening to the media on this issue because if we do not, the people who will be disenfranchised will not be the councillors but the ordinary citizens because when the system is broken, people must ring up a public representative to get it fixed. That is the most important aspect of our functioning democracy at the level closest to the citizen, which is the councillor. One can look across the Atlantic to Canada, a jurisdiction with a local government structure similar to that in Ireland because our system is based on the British model, where they really value democracy. Canada has independent commissions in each of their councils. If one considers the independent council commission committee in Edmonton, I note average councillor pay is $93,000, which is around €60,000. An independent commission also operates in Deer Lake with the same level of remuneration. In Vancouver, the minimum is $80,000. There is lots of other information out there. The template has been established. Let us remove this from the politicians, get an independent chair and report back within a reasonable timeframe but let us make sure the findings are backdated to when the problem was first identified. That is vitally important.

The issue of councillors being obliged to attend conferences and meetings and sit on boards just to make up a living wage - it is not even a living wage when one breaks it down with all the hours - is not right or fair. Councillors deserve a proper level of remuneration - a wage. It is called a representational payment but it should be a salary and should provide for proper remuneration at a level that is comparable with other jurisdictions, our public sector and the chief executives in each local authority because they are protected by the trade union movement, while the councillors are not. The average wage of a chief executive officer is well in excess of €100,000. Some are in receipt of €150,000 to €200,000. Is their job more important? Some might argue that it is but do they deal with the public on a daily basis 24-7, seven days a week? No, they do not because they work nine to five and are protected by that. I am not in any way denigrating the role of chief executives because it is very important but so too is the role of the councillor. We need to get real and set the terms and conditions, establish the committee as soon as possible and make sure the chairperson of that committee has an independent ethos and a public understanding of the role of a councillor. There should be an opportunity for the representative bodies - the AILG and LAMA - to feed into that system as well and provide evidence if the opportunity emerges. I hope the Minister of State will deal with this as quickly as possible. What level of engagement and sincerity is being extended from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform on this issue? Has it given the green light to the establishment of this commission? If not, why not?