Martin Conway (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I echo what Senator Coghlan has said. It is very much the principle of all parties working together on this. I speak to councillors quite a lot, and they are fed up of receiving a succession of correspondence and email from practically every Member of the House about councillors' pay and conditions, stating they have made representations to the Minister and so on. We all make representations to the Minister. I have great time for this particular Minister of State and believe he is probably one of the most genuine people in Irish politics but ultimately, the Minister is the man with the power. None of us here have the power. What power do we have? We have the power to vote against legislation and we can be disruptive but we do not want to do this because the citizens of the country are the people affected when that happens. Moreover, it impedes legislation going through the House. This is the power that is open to us. We are in a situation where the people with the power are those in the Government.

The case has been very well articulated. We all have many examples of the length and breadth of the responsibilities and workload dealt with by councillors. My old electoral area of north Clare is now known as the west Clare municipal district. It starts down at the ferry in Killimer and goes right up to the Galway border. One could not service that. It is ridiculous and the Minister knows it too, which is why we are having a local government review. This will come out in June and will have more manageable constituencies.

Ultimately, the basic principle to which we all sign up is a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. It is reasonable to suggest the vast majority of councillors are putting in a fair day's work but they are not getting a fair day's pay. I know the Minister of State will respond, not today but on 24 April, and I hope that by then we will have some white smoke on this issue. Whatever the outcome will be, will it be backdated to cover the period of this review? If a payment is made, it should be a salary of €25,000 or €30,000. The AILG has suggested something along the same lines. Those for whom local authority membership is the primary principal occupation and a full-time job would pay the minimum rate of tax but if it is a second occupation, they would pay the higher rate of tax. This would create an equilibrium in its own right.

Ultimately, we should not be standing here talking about councillors' pay. It is an issue we should not have to debate in the Seanad. I encourage our colleagues in Dáil Éireann to have a debate on councillors' pay because they have a role in this as well. I do not hear very many of them standing up and fighting for councillors but when a general election is called, they will all be looking for them to go out canvassing. I would like to see a similar debate in Dáil Éireann and get the commitments of Deputies in this area. Members of the Seanad obviously have a vested interest because councillors vote for Senators and that is logical. The councillors have an absolute expectation that we will do the business for them as best we can and the vast majority of us do. I believe Dáil Éireann also has a vested interest in this because a properly functioning local government with active councillors is good for democracy. It is also good for Dáil Éireann. I encourage the Minister of State to have a similar debate in the Dáil where these issues can be articulated also. I am looking forward to good news from the Minister of State because ultimately it will come, but I hope the good has not gone out of it by the time it does.