Dr. Maurice Manning:

I thank everyone who contributed to the discussion. Senator Feargal Quinn described it as a path, on which we are starting and down which we need to move quickly.

I have said the working group which included former Senators Pat Magner and Joe O'Toole only had one objective - to produce the strongest Seanad possible within the terms of the Constitution. I am pleased that our bona fides in that regard have been totally accepted by everybody who spoke because it was a working group with no other agenda.

We welcome the almost uniform positive response to what we have proposed. Senators have asked questions and many more will be asked. They have disagreed on details, which was to be expected, but on the general principle of reform and the direction in which we are moving there is universal agreement in the House. It is also gratifying that there is agreement that the process of implementation is being taken seriously as we have stressed it should be, both in the report and what we have said today. Unless there is a push and the Government takes the views of this House seriously that these are reforms that need to be commenced, it will not happen. Therefore, I am glad that the Leader will enable Senators, perhaps in a more formal sense, to express their views on them.

I am conscious that many specific questions were asked. I will leave most of the heavy lifting to former Senator Joe O'Toole and address only one or two brief points.

I am struck by the reference to the removal of the Whip. I agree with Senator Paschal Mooney. The concentration on the malignant role played by the Whips is a misnomer and it certainly was not part of our task to look at it.

We have stated the issue of a gender balance is one on which the Houses should decide; it was not our business to tell Members what they should do in that regard. Our legal advice makes it clear that it is possible to have gender quotas, etc.

On the use of the Whip, the first Seanad in the 1920s almost broke up in disarray. To get business done, Whips, the job of which was to facilitate the transaction of business, had to be appointed. In the German Parliament model 94% of legislation is eventually passed by consensus because the differences are talked through in committees. There is consultation and in the end agreement on the vast bulk of legislation on which Members give and take. Obviously, there are issues on which that is not possible, but in a new Seanad there would be no need for any group to have a majority to enable legislation to be fully discussed and implemented in an orderly way.

The final point I will make before former Senator Joe O'Toole speaks is in response to Senator Denis Landy who asked why we had fixed on 13 voted by councillors.The majority of the submissions we received advocated the entire abolition of all voting by councillors. I appreciate the importance of the strong link with local government, as well as the expertise those who have come through and who are judged by the local government electorate bring to this House. As a principle, we want to ensure this continues. However, there is the overriding need to ensure a majority of Members of the Seanad are elected by popular or universal franchise. We thought 13 Members would be a fair balance. I know others have looked for a higher number. That is open for discussion but I think it is a fair balance.