Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Senator Mooney was worried about the tensions between rural and urban councils. There are no town councils in County Limerick. There was Limerick City County and Limerick County Council so we did not have a tradition of tension between urban and rural in that sense. That did not stop Limerick County Council from approaching the boundaries of Limerick City Council to zone lands and, like Waterford, sucked the economic centre out of Limerick city. The bad practice and planning had a detrimental effect on the town and city centres of Limerick and Waterford. The State should not have provided infrastructural investment but it did and we now see the difficulties that the Government must reverse in the future in order to strengthen the city centres in both Limerick and Waterford.

The municipal district councillors are elected for their municipal district area but they are the same councillors who go to the plenary session of Leitrim County Council. They can argue their point in both places. They can seek resources to take care of needs and priorities for their area at municipal district level and then they can argue their point with the other 18 councillors in Leitrim.

As Senator Mooney will know, I made an exception for the counties of Longford, Leitrim and Roscommon which have a low population in order to ensure that they had a critical mass of 18 councillors. They can co-operate together in order to ensure that they have the necessary needs and that is based on the fact that they will now have more discretion at local level to raise and spend their moneys at local level.

With regard to Waterford, I am surprised that Senator Cullinane tabled an amendment seeking 18 councillors to be in the city and county of Waterford, rather than 32 councillors.