John Whelan (Labour) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this motion. It is timely and I commend the Independent Senators for their creativity and good timing.

It would be difficult to table a more appropriate motion than this. In a strong, confident and modern democracy, one would expect to have this type of legislation embedded in its democratic infrastructure. We are fighting a rearguard action in addressing these issues.

While I have been a critic of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, and Government in general on certain issues, to be fair to the Minister he has introduced legislation this year. As Senator Barrett noted, however, time is of the essence and the Houses must pass the legislation.

Unfortunately, lobbying works, as has been shown, no less than in the Houses of Oireachtas, where it was recently accepted that not one child would play rugby, soccer or GAA if it were not for the drinks companies. We have been persuaded of the argument that without alcohol sponsorship, sport would fall apart at the seams. The argument in favour of sponsorship of sport by the drinks industry was made before the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications. Why was a public health issue removed from the remit of the Joint Committee on Health and Children? It should never have been sidetracked or diverted for lobbying purposes and to ensure continued sponsorship of sport by drinks companies would be accepted on a wink and nod.

The master stroke of the drinks companies pales into insignificance when compared with the pièce de résistanceof lobbying, the bank bailout. It is topical and timely that we are discussing this lobbying coup of the century today. My only regret is that we do not have recordings of the meetings that took place on golf courses and at race meetings, not only the Galway Races, at which decisions were made in the period leading up to September 2008. While we have tape recordings of bankers discussing the bailout, we do not have recordings of them discussing the issue with those who ultimately made the decision. I am not being politically partisan in saying this. However, it is absurd to suggest there are no records of any value in the Department of Finance or Office of the Taoiseach which show that lobbyists were active in this matter. It is difficult to believe that scenario.

I do not want to tar everyone with the same brush because many of those who visit the Houses do so to engage in what one could loosely describe as lobbying. This week, for example, people visited the Oireachtas to lobby about special needs assistants and home helps. We also received a delegation seeking to discuss the side-effects of narcolepsy. The people in question are decent individuals and families who are trying to represent citizens who have not been well represented by the State. People come here to make representations on behalf of the elderly, a group which frequently gets the wrong end of the stick. This, too, is a form of lobbying, albeit not of the type we are discussing.

Behind the motion lies a desire to address the issue of people representing big business getting close to the Government and Cabinet of the day. I resent this because I naively and stupidly believed that elected Deputies and Senators would have access to Ministers to make arguments and lobby, so to speak. As Senator Thomas Byrne stated, one learns lessons along the way. As we speak, there are people we do not know in the House. They are inside the tent and we do not know them, because lobbyists come in all shapes and sizes. As the Senator noted, one cannot walk down a corridor in the House without meeting one. I have been confronted for not attending a briefing or lobbying session and told I will pay a price down the road. We have to ask who is signing these people into the House and on what basis such access to the Government and Legislature is being given. This dangerous practice should be curbed.

Big business has managed to flex its muscles in the area of taxation. While no one welcomes job creation or foreign direct investment more than I do, it has taken a British Tory Prime Minister to set the agenda by stating that big corporations should pay their fair share of tax. Who would have believed Prime Minister Cameron would get us to do the right thing on taxation? I always believed corporations here paid 12.5% tax but it has transpired that companies have ways and means of circumventing the tax system. Lobbyists serve one purpose, namely, to bend our ear, twist our arms and persuade us to turn a blind eye. In many cases, they do so to advance the interests of big business.

While I do not wish to draw the ire of Senator Crown, I do not have problem if I am approached by someone who introduces himself or herself as a representative of the tobacco industry before outlining a pitch. At least one knows the angle in such cases. I am more concerned about vested interests and people with concealed interests or conflicts of interest who do not declare their position. In some cases, these people have been appointed by the Government to represent the public interest on State and public bodies. Some of them double back through the swing doors downstairs before heading to the Minister's office to outline what policy the Government should pursue. I will not abuse the privilege of the House by identifying the individuals in question but Senators know who they are. New cases are emerging all the time. Some of them are undeclared directors, shareholders and board members of companies. While it is legitimate to be in business to try to generate profit and create jobs and to represent one's position, it is not legitimate to pretend that one can represent the public interest and a private commercial interest at the same time. The people in question come to the House to engage in lobbying and have access to the Cabinet and Government on a daily basis.

The motion is not before its time in many ways given the events of this week. Senators often beat up on journalists and the media, sometimes with good cause, but to be fair to the media it is good to finally see a return to good old-fashioned investigative journalism. That people are wondering what will be in the following day's newspaper is a good outcome for journalism and democracy. Finally, the issue of the bailout is being flushed out into the open. Those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear. The current story is a little like an iceberg in the sense that we have only seen about one ninth of it and we have not yet run aground. As Senators Barrett and O'Donnell noted, the people in question gambled with the lives of citizens, with the result that 300,000 people had to leave the country, 400,000 are unemployed and many people losing their homes. Unfortunately and tragically, others have lost their lives. Lobbying is not a victimless pursuit or benign industry. It must be curbed and, at a minimum, records must be made.