Sean Barrett (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I praise the Senators who proposed the motion. This is a major problem. It is estimated there are 14,000 lobbyists in Britain, 17,000 in the United States and 10,000 in Brussels. What are they doing? They are earning large amounts through their role in influencing legislation and, as Senator Byrne pointed out, that is our task. We should not allow that influence and I agree with Senator Byrne about who gets into this House. We should have a visitors' book for Government Departments because much of the lobbying goes on there. The book from the Department of Finance or Government Buildings went mysteriously missing the night the €65 billion escaped. This must be done openly. It is a major cause for concern.

This is a huge distortion in the modern economy. The studies of why so many countries have nearly gone bankrupt puts as one of the top five reasons that lobbyists are so powerful it means legislation is not assessed in terms of its benefit to society as a whole but just for the narrow interest groups. That increases public expenditure and borrowing, diverting resources that should be used productively into lobbying while letting public servants off the hook. They rely on lobbyists and do not develop the expertise themselves to frame proper legislation. I want to see the best grower of strawberries in Ireland thriving, not the best lobbyist who gets imported strawberries banned for six months and who then makes a fortune by selling an inferior product. That is the nature of lobbyists.

Tobacco was mentioned. The Minister has moved a lot on this and menthol flavour cigarettes are gone. The Minister could not get slim cigarettes banned at the European meeting but in the plain packaging no one will know. We now recognise that we should phase out the tobacco industry.

I have never been lobbied by tobacco, alcohol or gambling interests. Perhaps they know the answer they would get so they do not waste their time. Gaming has tried and we hear that if the industry is allowed to do X, Y and Z, it will create X thousands of jobs but that does not wash with me. Gambling destroys incomes and family homes. It takes a long time for a person to drink himself into ill health but in ten minutes the house could be gone on a horse; that is the damage gambling does.

Bankers have been mentioned and they did more damage than the rest put together. There was a failure to regulate them and previously politicians held them in awe. Enterprise and entrepreneurship must be separate from banking, which is a sort off left luggage place where we put money and leave it in case we need it further along. It should not be allowed to pretend it runs the economy.

The construction industry has an appalling record of lobbying in this country. There used to be a section in the capital budget detailing the amount that had been spent on the construction industry. Nothing else counted. Why did it get a whole section for itself in the public capital programme? The hospitality at the Galway races did the sector no credit either. We need a learned Civil Service that could point out these construction projects would have no multiplier effect, would cause an increase in national debt and would not create an asset. The building industry can no longer mumble about Keynesian economics.

I sometimes wonder if all the lobbying by agricultural interests has had any impact at all in improving standards for those it is supposed to represent. Why is agriculture in New Zealand doing so well? Most of the subsidies are capitalised into higher land prices that prevent young people from entering agriculture. I look askance at documents I get from existing farmers about how to keep new farmers out. I had the same experience with the Government's Bill on the taxi industry that had to be seriously amended.

If lobbyists are to be allowed in here at all, they should be confined to one room. I would prefer to keep them in Buswell's Hotel but if they are here it should be open to everyone - lobbyist X is in room Y and that room should be open to anyone to go in to see what they have to say. Much of the bank lobbying was done with bankers marking the golf balls so the regulator always won the competition and would be presented with the cup. He should have been nowhere near those golf fixtures. We all need rules to keep our distance from those who try to inveigle us with hospitality or golf outings.

I got the document on lobbying, which was published in July 2012. Is there any chance the Government might act on it as it has been sitting around for a year? The Government should come up with something; we have not held the EU Presidency forever. These proposals should be developed. The Government's intentions are good but speed is lacking.

We must restore an independent public service, which we always had in the past. Public servants were steely in staying away from lobbyists. That was undermined during the economic bubble era. It can be restored, however, because young people have very high standards in that regard.

We want regulatory impact statements. The Government has been sliding out of that duty and we rarely get them now. Who lobbied, what did he want, what would the effect be on society? That information should be included with every Bill that in introduced to the Houses.

I look askance at the tax lawyers and accountants who have designed a tax system only they can understand. We as ordinary PAYE employees do not have access to them. Their relationship with the Revenue Commissioners must be looked at, particularly in light of the last Finance Bill.

Having listened to the moral arguments for the Government amendment and the motion itself, this is a useless and wasted industry of tens of thousands of people looking for concessions. Why do they not do some real work and produce something that would add to our GDP? Economists would hold even stronger views on this than the proposers of the motion. This is an activity undertaken by termites that eat the tax base and eats into the Legislature. We must have strict rules because we do not want those people around here.