Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I will go through the steps the Department undertakes. I very much doubt that many private firms would do what public servants do to encourage people and offer them as many opportunities as are humanly possible to engage with the system. Let us bear in mind that if they do engage, within three weeks, they will have purged their contempt and can have their payments restored.

First, a letter addressed to the person with a written invitation to a group engagement session issues to customers. This letter includes a warning regarding the possible imposition of penalty rates for people who fail to attend. Second, if the customer does not show up at the group engagement session, he or she is requested in writing to call to the local branch office for an interview. Is that not reasonable? Third, during this interview, a verbal warning regarding possible imposition of penalty rates is given. A second written invitation to the interview and the group engagement issues to the customer. If the customer does not attend the rescheduled engagement, the penalty rate is applied.

Over the period, four contacts have been made with the individual, at any which time he or she can pick up the telephone, e-mail or call in person to the local office and give the reason for the failure to attend. This is not some heavy hand lying in wait to trap people. This is a process of encouraging people to engage with the system. When the penalty rate has been applied, at the same time a rescheduled interview is notified to the customer so that the Department is trying to encourage the person to come and talk to the officials in order to try to get a job. At that stage, if the customer comes in, the penalty rate is lifted. The customer has many opportunities to engage. If the customer fails to engage at this point, the penalty rate remains in place and a full review of entitlements is scheduled.

I brought forward the idea of a penalty being applied for people who do not engage with the system, as they will be the beneficiaries of engaging with the system. Since I introduced this process in April 2011, a total of 2,841 penalty rates have been applied. The feedback on the ground is that most ordinary people feel this is a good idea. I would be particularly concerned about some younger people who might drift away and feel they do not have a future whereas if they talk to somebody about the educational opportunities open to them, they can actually complete or renew their education for their own sake and that of their family. They hopefully will get employment, but, if not, as Members will recall in the budget, I extended the number of community employment places by 10,000. The Tús local employment service gives people an opportunity to engage in work. I meet people all the time who have taken part in community employment schemes, who tell me how delighted they are to be working in the community sector and their hope that something will come from it. I think it is fantastic for a person to be facilitated by these schemes. It saddens me when I hear people say they sent out 200 CVs but never got an answer. People in human resource management will know that if one sends out a common CV, one is unlikely to get an answer but if one goes to a jobs club, which the Department funds all around the country, the outcome is better. I opened one recently in Kilkenny, the area in which I think the Senator lives. The people who had become involved in the jobs club gave us very positive feedback

People involved in the jobs club were cut off from work, with some of them made redundant after working for 15 years through no fault of their own, as the business had just gone down. The club led to people feeling engaged and talking to other people, getting into a network and being helped back to work. Their comments were very profound, and such an initiative is the job of the Department. We are trying to bring such projects about. People may feel they are busy doing their own thing but one must work to get back into employment. Unless there are family connections or other networks, it takes much effort to get back to work and we want to help people in doing that.

If people are getting significant benefits from the State, I do not apologise for feeling I have an obligation to taxpayers and people who fund the tax and social welfare system. There is a small number of people that we can ask to pay attention and if they do not engage in the process, they will lose some of their money.