David Cullinane (Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

The purpose of this and the next number of sections have not escaped my attention and I do not have a difficulty with it, although sometimes, for whatever reason, the Minister seeks to put words in my mouth and takes the most extreme example of a situation to offer as justification for her position. She also seeks to misrepresent my personal view, again for whatever reason. There is nothing in what the Minister has said that goes against what I have said. Never at any stage did I say I had a difficulty with a sanction being put in place when a person refuses to engage at any level with the system, or when he or she does not turn up for interview. Of course there must be a level of sanction and we must ensure that a sanction is in place for those who are unemployed, especially long-term, who will not engage, in spite of the best efforts put in place by the State, the Department and the Minister, or for those who simply opt out.

The Minister spoke about the fact that people who are working and paying taxes are paying for people's social welfare. Equally, people who are out of work, who worked for a long number of years, paid into a social insurance fund, paid their PRSI and their taxes but now find themselves unemployed through no fault of their own. They are entitled to enjoy a level of support and need to be supported in respect of career paths, getting back to work, labour activation measures and so on.

However, there is an issue with just cause. The Minister stated that just cause is used in other areas of social welfare. We are inserting a new section here to impose a new sanction being put in place by the Government but it simply states "just cause". The Minister gave some good examples, such as a person who has to attend a funeral, or whatever. That is my point. We should be more prescriptive around what we mean in regard to just cause. The Minister also stated there was established practice, something that already happens, and I acknowledge that. However, from my experience, having been a councillor for seven years and having dealt with thousands of cases of people who have made applications for social welfare on different levels, the just cause element has not always been used fairly simply because it is not prescriptive enough.

I refer to labour activation measures and the supports and pathways which the Minister stated were being used by the Department. Of course there are people who will be happy with the courses offered to them and the opportunities being made available, but equally people are being offered courses which have no relevance to them. These will not help them or offer them a career path but will be just a course for the sake of doing a course. That is not good enough, but the sanction will be in place if those concerned do not sign up for such courses. I fully support the policy that a sanction needs to be in place for people who do not engage at any level but sometimes the balance can go the other way. Although I agree with the Minister that we need to have a balance of responsibility, I believe we have gone too far in the other direction in terms of having too much stick and sanction, without having a clear view, as Oireachtas Members who are being asked to pass this legislation, of what constitutes good cause. For that reason, I cannot support the section.