Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

In response to Senator Mooney's understandable compassionate intervention on behalf of acting CEOs, it may seem a little unjust that there are 13 who were acting CEOs but there is a rational explanation for it. The previous Administration embarked on reform and rationalisation of a series of public agencies, including the VECs. It was my predecessor, former Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, who, in the process of anticipating a rationalisation down from 33, prudently, on the advice of civil servants, stated that the Department did not want to create difficulties where a vacancy occurs in a situation as would be normal in the public service and that position was likely to be amalgamated with another one. It made sense to create an acting position rather than, as would have been the norm, a permanent one but they would, presumably, hold permanency in their previous job within the organisation for which they worked.

There were, from memory, in round figures, 20 permanent CEOs for 16 positions. That was finally resolved through a seniority system based on length of service in that position as a CEO and choices were made on how applicants applied for different posts. It took quite a bit of time. There was much effort taken by both the representatives of the CEOs and the assistant secretary in the Department of Education and Skills.

A resolution was found for those who took up the posts and for permanent CEOs who did not have the seniority to get what they would have liked. A practical rational arrangement was made in the southern part of the country in anticipation of people retiring, which considered where people would ultimately end up, and in light of this put them in a particular position for five to seven years. This was done in a very open and transparent way. It was very sensible because if one is in a place for less than 18 months one will have less engagement with it than if one knows one will be there for a longer period of time. All of these decisions were predicated on the basis that we want this fairly massive transformation to be successful and we want those in leadership positions to feel secure, respected and valued for what they can do. Acting and full CEOs are in this leadership capacity. This is a very big change. Senators have seen the size of the legislation and know what they have dealt with, and on the ground its effect is considerable.

To reply to Senator Wilson, we envisage that all change will happen on one day and that when VEC X closes on a Friday, ETB X will open on Monday. The telephones and banking systems will continue and nothing is disrupted. The service to the public must be maintained. A working group is actively examining these matters. Of the existing VECs, eight have the same computer system. Logically we want all of them to have the same computer system so they can talk to each other. We are trying to transition from where we are today to a point some time in the future when this will happen. The super-CEOs, if I can call them that, those who will become the CEOs of the new ETBs will only assume their legal powers once the legislation is activated. Until now a location may have a sitting CEO and an acting CEO, with the new CEO coming from a different territory with no powers as such, other than persuasion and good manners, with regard to what is happening.

In these difficult times, when many in the public service feel unsure about where they are because of what has been discussed in recent times, I am conscious it is in everybody's interest to have the most accommodating and flexible type of response to the changes that will occur. We are interested in success. We have a vested interest collectively that this transformation is successful. Those to whom the Senator referred are among those in key positions; they are not the only people in such positions but they are among them. I have spoken at some length with the senior official involved and the Secretary General about the fact that we must make this transition and transfer seamlessly without disruption to the citizens deriving the service, the schools being managed through VECs and the staff themselves.

To answer Senator Wilson's question, it is my intention to commission the 16 new ETBs prior to the end of June, and sooner possible. It will be predicated on whether the single ETB will work on the Monday as the separate VECs had worked on the previous Friday, in whatever shape or form this was. It sounds easy to say but much must be done.

With regard to the statutory instruments we will examine whether we can accommodate the spirit of what was clearly articulated in the House on reconciling practical representation of local parents with the logistics I have put on the record of the House. I will also consult with the national parents' associations on the best way to do this. As Senator Power stated, we need active parental engagement in this and I support what she stated with regard to Scotland.