Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank all the contributors to the debate. Some important views have been put forward. If I do not answer all the questions, including those from the Acting Chairman, it will not be a question of not having enough time but of getting a proper briefing back to Senators on the issues they raised. They are important and fundamental questions about where we are going and how we are going to do this.

I will deal with speakers in the order in which they spoke. Some issues may have been raised by several individuals. Senator Daly's key point, putting it in the most constructive form possible, was about transparency and accountability in the selection of Bord Gáis. He asked why Uisce Éireann should have gone to Bord Gáis as opposed to any other body. The key issue is that we wanted a public utility, not a privatised one.

Bord Gáis and Bord na Móna, which are both public utilities with considerable experience, broad customer bases and national profiles, were analysed independently and each of them put forward ideas as to how they would run Uisce Éireann if given the opportunity. The recommendation and the reasons for it were given by the administration, not the politicians. That is why it is Bord Gáis that is doing this. The question of whether Bord Gáis has the capacity to do so is a fundamental one. Is it a lean, mean machine and an efficient and capable organisation? Has it got the network, the customer base, the experience with networks and the skills and knowledge that any private company has? The answer is a resounding "Yes". When Uisce Éireann comes before the Oireachtas committees, Members will be satisfied that it will provide specialist expertise as good as or better than any found in the private sector. That is the key issue with regard to transparency and accountability - where the body has come from, where it is going and how it is going to do it. This refers back to Senator Landy's question about how it will be accountable to the people. In the first instance, it will be accountable to me and the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan. It will also be accountable to the committees of the Houses of the Oireachtas, by virtue of attendance there by officials from the Department and Uisce Éireann, and to the local authority system.

We are talking about regional river basins and structures, which may be the best place for local government to have its official say. On the ground, whether one is a Deputy, a Senator or an ordinary consumer, if one has a problem, one rings a 1850 number and gets an answer straightaway. Accountability must be there on the ground. There must and will be arrangements for local representatives to have the correct telephone numbers and to get the responses they need.

We should not forget that many jobs will be created in setting up Uisce Éireann. A call centre will be in place very soon with the creation of a significant number of jobs in which people will answer queries and be accountable, which is what everybody wants. I will deal with the issues with regard to the installation of meters. As thousands of jobs will be created over a number of years in this area, it will be a big plus for the economy in terms of the spin-off.

I do not know what happened in Ennis. Obviously, it was a serious problem. The question of building standards is key. When the meters are put in, they must be capable of withstanding the most extreme weather conditions. The meters will not be named meters. Meters can be provided by any company, provided it meets the required rigorous standards. There will be automatic reading of these meters. The issue of energy meters or smart metering is being discussed by the energy regulator. It may not be possible to achieve this in time. I understand it may be seven or more years before we have the technology, but the point raised by Senator Keane about how one can maximise information about energy or water through one meter rather than two or three is very important.

Senator Barrett raised some important issues, and was right in saying that we need a counterweight to the regulator. We must be sure that when prices are being fixed by the regulator independently of the political system, they are informed by everybody, particularly by consumers. I hope to meet the regulator next week to initiate a discussion about some of the issues in my mind and the minds of Members. I want to make sure the regulator does exactly what it says on the tin. Primacy must be given to the consumer, and the regulator must take on board the concerns of, be available to and consult with significant consumer groups, be it the Consumers' Association of Ireland, dedicated consumer groups or a consumer panel. The experience in other countries such as the United Kingdom, where consumer panels exist, must be debated.

As the legislation we will introduce before Christmas will concern the establishment of Uisce Éireann and the regulator, it is important that we consider all views held by Members. If Members wish to communicate views and issues by e-mail or other means, I will be very happy to put them on the table with the regulator and Bord Gáis. The appropriate thing would be to come back here after due discussion in order that Members can interrogate the answers I give to see if they make sense.

I have one point to make about the issue raised by Senator Barrett and I do not make it facetiously. It is easy to ask why should we charge. Water is free - it falls from the sky - but the problem is that while it certainly falls free, it is not free to collect. One must pump, store and treat it. That is the problem. The infrastructure, which in many cases is old and outdated, must be renewed constantly. We also have the question of wastewater treatment, which we have not debated, and the public health issues that arise when the water supply is contaminated due to weaknesses in such treatment.

I am very aware of regulatory capture. Senator Cummins spoke about the communications strategy, which will be key. We must sell the message of why we are doing this and the benefits involved to every household in the country and make sure people are satisfied they are getting good value for money and that the regulator and politicians are on their marks, accountable and transparent in their dealings. Bhí an Seanadóir Ó Clochartaigh ag caint faoi privatisation. Privatisation is a non-runner but that does not mean that private enterprise or people in business should not have a direct line of communication with the regulator, the Department, Bord Gáis or Uisce Éireann. Deputy Gerry Adams shares a constituency in County Louth with me. His former constituents in east Belfast pay the equivalent of ¤1,400 in charges every calendar year. He may argue that they are not water charges but local charges for services and regional charges for the Six Counties. I do not think that makes sense.

I will respond to the point made by Senator Quinn about Siemens. I was not briefed about what that proposal was but I will get an answer and ask the Department to communicate it to him.

We meet regularly with Scottish Water and I will be travelling to Scotland on Monday to talk about other issues. The Department takes account of what Scottish Water has done. The key issue is that over a period of seven or eight years, Scottish Water has reduced the cost of the provision of water by over 40%. That was not easily done and there are issues around employment but the cost to the consumer has gone down. I am not familiar with the Welsh water issue but I can get a briefing on it. I have visited Anglian Water and am aware that water policy is informed constantly by listening to what other jurisdictions have to say.

In respect of Senator Coghlan's point about the Devil's Punchbowl in Killarney, I can only say that any time I have been to Killarney the water was grand, and the fruit in the punchbowl was very nice as well. The mid-Leinster scheme involving the augmentation of the water supply to the greater Dublin area is a flagship project. The principle of water abstraction is a hot topic in many respects but it can be dealt with. We must augment to ensure the greater Dublin area has the water supply it needs. The project at Garryhinch is very much on my mind. I have visited the United Kingdom and seen Rutland Water. I encourage the Joint Committee on the Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht to visit and see what a fantastic reservoir and a wonderful achievement it is and how it attracts over 1 million visitors to the local economy in a place that is very distant from cities such as London and Manchester. It is at the heart of water conservation and is a wonderful scheme.

I have dealt with most of the questions.

If Senators have further questions, I will be happy to communicate with them. My door is always open. This is a learning process for me and I want to take on board all views and keep everybody informed as we progress. We are embarking on a major project. Some say it is like setting up the ESB. It is a massive national undertaking and I do not underestimate the task ahead of us. We will not manage to get everything right, but we can benefit greatly from listening to Members on all sides of this House.