Denis Landy (Labour) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State. I apologise because Senator Whelan and I were at another meeting and I thank him for his forbearance with us on this issue.

Like the Minister of State, I had many years of experience in local government and I am acutely aware of the role of local government staff in the current provision of water throughout the country. Extrapolating from the number of local authority staff who deal specifically with this area, I believe in the order of 3,000 staff from local authorities are charged with the provision of water under the current system.

We have had a number of discussions in the House on this matter and also presented a paper to the Minister of State at the Joint Committee on the Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht - on 17 July, if memory serves me correctly. He responded on a number of issues, one of which he raised himself, about the situation of those staff who are public servants working for local authorities, who have expertise ranging from fitting taps to running the water system for Dublin city. A small amount of expertise is contracted or bought in on an annual basis but generally speaking the expertise is in place. At the time, the Minister of State said there were discussions between the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, the Department and the local authorities. Can he advise me on how those discussions are going? I apologise if this was mentioned because I missed the earlier section. I am especially concerned because I have been contacted about this issue in recent weeks by staff in what used to be my local authority, in south Tipperary. I would like an assurance from the Minister of State that the line of negotiations goes right down to all staff. That is extremely important. I realise the Minister of State will have dealt with another of my points, that is, the issue of security and so on for the people concerned.

The Minister of State's party and ministerial colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, is attempting to introduce a process of local government reform and a programme of change. As part of that, he has advised Members of this House that he wishes to take powers from the centre and give them back to local government to ensure that local government has a stronger meaning for the citizen in the community and in society. On the face of it, what we are doing in this case is taking the service from local authorities and giving it to the new body. Is the Minister of State able to give me some information on what discussions, if any, he has had with the Minister vis-à-vis the input local government representatives will have with regard to this new body? Will there be positions on the board for them and will they have an opportunity to feed in their views and needs? Will the representations of locally elected councillors be dealt with by a unit within the new body and, if so, how will that work?

I am sure the Minister of State will acknowledge that in my time and his in local government there were seven health boards throughout the country with which we dealt directly. We dealt directly with the budgets in each health board area; there was accountability at local level and a flow of information. In my experience as a local councillor, that stopped when the HSE was established. I do not want that to happen when this new body begins work and I want the Minister of State to address that issue before we get to a point from which we cannot return. The specific point I wish to raise with the Minister of State today is whether he will ensure that councillors, who are the bedrock of democracy in this country, are brought into the loop within the new system, have a place in it and a part to play, and that there is accountability from the new body to local public representatives. I do not want this new body to be another HSE.