Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)

In 1933, Eamon de Valera, who had just been elected Taoiseach, called an election. During the course of the election campaign he visited my home town of Drumshanbo in County Leitrim and made a speech on the high street. This is commemorated with a plaque that was unveiled subsequently by his granddaughter, a former Member of the other House, Síle de Valera. It was an extraordinary event, according to what my late father told me, and happened on a fair day when many such political gatherings used to take place. The reason the cameras happened to be in Drumshanbo at that time is that a cameraman was following de Valera on his national campaign. The clip was subsequently used in the programme about de Valera from that wonderful series, "Seven Ages: The Story of the Irish State", by Seán Ó Mordha on RTE television, which is available on DVD. During the clip, the extract from his speech, de Valera threatened to abolish the Senate if it continued to thwart Government business. As Senator Quinn outlined in his eloquent contribution, the First Seanad that was established under the Free State Constitution did not have a Whip system. The Seanad continued to thwart W.T. Cosgrave's Administration from 1922 to 1932 and the two subsequent de Valera Administrations between 1932 and 1936, when Mr. de Valera abolished it. It is rather interesting that despite his antipathy towards the Free State Seanad, which obviously had a mind of its own, Mr. de Valera decided to reintroduce the Seanad, much to the surprise of everybody, when he put his proposal for a new constitution before the people in 1937. I have never gone into the detail of what changed his mind but it is obvious that when he looked at the situation, he decided this country would be more suited to a bicameral parliament. At that time, and to a large extent today, the Executive ruled and the Dáil disposed of the Executive's proposals.

As I have often said in this House, we have one of the most centralised Administrations in Europe. Senator MacSharry spoke about Stalin in another context. The manner in which we govern is in urgent need of reform. Successive Administrations of all political hues have done very little to reform the manner in which we carry out our democratic duties in either House. This House has been totally ignored. The 13 reform documents that have been prepared since 1937 are gathering dust on the shelves of the Oireachtas Library. In all that time, not a single Government has done anything to address the inequities and flaws that have existed since the First Seanad. The first of those flaws relates to the manner in which Senators are elected. Mr. de Valera's concept was excellent. He decided the new Seanad would be broadly reflective of vocational and other interests. It was supposed to be a broad representation of Irish society. However, even the most dedicated MA students would find it difficult to get their heads around the complex structure of Oireachtas panels and nominating sub-panels he put in place. Only those of us who have gone through the system are able to go some way towards explaining how it works. However, it has worked in terms of getting people elected.

The original concept was all about representing various vocational interests such as organised labour, administration, the industrial and commercial life of the country, the cultural and educational life of the country and the agriculture sector. All of these important parts of Irish life - of who we are as a nation - were supposed to be represented in the new Seanad. The flaw was the manner in which one had to go about being elected. It was all very well to allow the respective bodies to make nominations, but the broad membership of those bodies did not have the right to vote in Seanad elections. That was left to the politics of the day. As a consequence, this Chamber was, is and will remain a political Chamber. Therein lies the flaw. That is just one aspect of this debate, however. I raise it merely as an historical anecdote that points to the urgent need for Seanad reform.

The most recent of the 13 reports that have suggested various ways of reforming the Seanad was published when Mary O'Rourke was the Leader of the House. Such a level of activity proves that the Members of this House, across all groupings, have never at any time been reluctant to embrace change. We have been pilloried by the public for being irrelevant. It has been suggested that the Seanad is a nursing home for broken-down politicians or a starting point for aspiring politicians. In fact, the Seanad has been accused in the public domain of doing everything other than what it was established to do, which is to operate as a means of bringing checks and balances to the democratic system. That was and remains the core of the business of the Seanad.

The Government has suggested the establishment of a constitutional convention. The dogs on the street would say without any reflective thought that Seanad reform should be included in such a convention. Like Senator Quinn, I cannot understand why the Government is going down the route it has chosen. It is not as if there is no room for debate on Seanad reform. What is the Government offering? It is offering an architecture that will involve elected representatives and a random selection of people from across the country. I assume they will be selected in the same way as people are selected for jury service. It is likely that some of the people who are asked to get involved will not want to do so. What will they be asked to deliberate on when this elaborate structure is put in place? At a time when 440,000 people are unemployed, they will be asked to talk about whether the President should serve for five years rather than seven years and whether the voting age should be reduced from 18 to 17. How is the Government deciding on its priorities?

The Taoiseach set the ball rolling in this regard by unilaterally declaring he wanted to get rid of the Seanad. I can inform Senator Quinn that according to the information available to me, which will be for another day, the Taoiseach did so in a fit of pique without consulting his colleagues. He is now being hung by his own petard. The Labour Party has not made a public policy statement on the abolition of the Seanad, but it seems it is not in favour of it. I am aware that some senior members of the Labour Party would prefer if Seanad reform was considered as part of the constitutional convention. Fianna Fáil is not in favour of abolition. When our leader got a rush of blood to the head during the general election campaign - perhaps he was going for a populist line of thought as well - he asked why it should not be abolished but we managed to convince him otherwise and put a little halt to his gallop. He has now seen the proper light of day in that regard. In fairness to him, he went about it in a very systematic manner. He consulted his Seanad colleagues and asked our esteemed colleague - Senator O'Donovan, who has legal training - to conduct research and prepare a report. We had a democratic debate on that basis, as we always do in Fianna Fáil, and we made a democratic decision that we are not in favour of abolition. Senator Cullinane made it quite clear in his contribution that Sinn Féin is not in favour of abolition. I understand from those who comment on these things that any time an amendment to our Constitution is proposed - I think we have made more amendments to our Constitution than the people of Switzerland have made to that country's constitution - the referendum does not pass unless there is a political consensus in the country and among the political establishment.