Tom Shehan (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister of State. Much of what has been said on both sides of the House has been directed towards people living in the real world. Listening to the contributions I have been thinking to myself that every one of the Senators who spoke must be on the plus side with his or her bank, given the way he or she has been talking. I am surprised by the point made on the preamble by Senator Sean D. Barrett, a man for whom I have massive respect. In the real world I know that if I do not pay my bank and if I was, like many in the country, 90 days in arrears on my mortgage, and I then went into the bank to seek a business loan, there would be only one answer - "No."

That is what is happening in the real world and with banks in this country. Ultimately, our bank is the European Central Bank because that is where the money which is bankrolling our country at present comes from. However, terms and conditions apply.

Senator David Norris stated that any contract signed under duress is invalid. I suggest that 90% of mortgages signed in recent years are invalid if that is the case. I know of people who went to the auctioneer on a Thursday and when they returned on the Friday to make a down-payment of 10%, the house had increased in value by €25,000. Such madness was taking place and that is what people are burdened with now.

Other Members referred to austerity. No one wants to introduce austerity or to ask our people to take the pain they are enduring, but what is the alternative? It was stated earlier that some in Government are asking the question, what is the alternative. If we reject the treaty and we are told by those in Europe that there is no more money, where will the money come from? We are with the lender of last resort at present. Therefore, where will the money come from to pay public servants and to keep services going? There is austerity but no hospital or school has closed yet. No emergency department is being closed. That is what it could be like and that is what I am concerned about. People have said the treaty is not perfect, but we are with the lender of last resort and these are the terms and conditions for the ongoing financing of the State.

I would love to have seen Fine Gael and the Labour Party in government when there were budget surpluses of billions of euro every year. I would like to think we would not have squandered it. I would like to see Fine Gael and the Labour Party in government sometime when we have a budget surplus.

When people call for an honest debate, they are usually talking out of the corner of the mouths while stirring it in the background. If there is to be honesty in the debate about austerity, we should admit that there is no longer a border between here and Northern Ireland. It is simply imaginary. As part of a power-sharing arrangement, Sinn Féin has no difficulty ramming austerity down people's throats in Northern Ireland. It has no problem with a property tax in Northern Ireland where it is in government in a power-sharing arrangement. It has no problem with people paying for water in Northern Ireland. If it were in power in this jurisdiction, I would like to see what it would do.