Colm Burke (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister to the House and thank him for bringing forward this legislation. Many of the issues I wanted to raise have been mentioned but I will refer to one or two issues, one of which concerns my experience of dealing with young people.

Many years ago I had the privilege of being invited onto a committee on the north side of Cork city which was deciding what to do about the problem of young people dropping out of school. Those young people were going down the criminal road where eventually they would end up in St. Patrick's Institution and then prison in the long term. One of the actions taken involved working with the local gardaí and the setting up a retraining facility where we would have 50 people retraining at any one time, all of whom had dropped out of school. That comes back to what Senator Cullinane said earlier about taking action at an earlier stage.

It was interesting that the large number of people we had retraining had major problems with literacy and numeracy. We gave them a choice of courses to take up and in order to get them used to the idea of turning up every morning, each was given a clock-in card. They had to clock in every morning and if they did not clock in on time, the allowance given to them at the end of the week was reduced accordingly.

A number of years later we decided to research those people who had passed through the facility and it was interesting to find that the vast majority of them were in full-time work and had not become involved in crime. That research work was done by a former member of the Sinn Féin Party who was brought on board to do it. It gave us a clear indication that by working together we could steer people in the right direction rather than adopting the attitude of allowing the problem continue without taking decisive action. We could get them back into the education system and give them a skill to allow them move on to jobs. In addition to providing training we also got them out into the workplace, initially for two weeks at a time, and then brought them back into the training facility. At a later stage we sent them back into the workplace for four weeks and eventually got them into full-time employment.

I welcome this Bill because the community service area is the way forward. Unfortunately, once people are sent to prison or to St. Patrick's Institution it takes them a long time to come out of those institutions. The Bill is welcome in that regard.

As someone who has practised in the District Court from time to time, although my role in the District Court was of a minor nature in that criminal law would not have been my main area, I was surprised by the small number of courts that use the community service order. I welcome the provision in section 3, paragraphs (a) and (b), which puts the obligation on the District Court judge to consider the proposition of the community service order where the sentence is likely to be 12 months or less. If the sentence is more than 12 months the judge has the option of considering it also. It is a welcome development and something that is long overdue.

We must also consider how we can assist those in the prison system in terms of not getting involved in the crime scene soon after leaving prison. In the mid-1990s there was a project in Cork where 20 people in prison were taken on an education programme while their partners, who were not in prison, joined an education programme of a different nature. It was an attempt to get the message across about involving people in the education system. It was interesting that of the 20 who did the programme, 12 went back to full-time education when they left prison. In terms of the prison system we must encourage people and tell them there is a different road available when they leave prison. We must do everything possible to give them every opportunity to take that right road.

Regarding the District Court and other courts, we must get the message across that many people who end up in the criminal system do not want to be in it and would do everything possible to get out of it but looking at the figures on the use of the community service order in the past, I am not sure whether our justice system is getting that message. We must do everything possible in that regard. We will be in government for the next five years and it is important that, by the end of that period, there will be a different attitude to dealing with this matter. The prison population has continued to grow.

My concern over the implementation of the legislation is based on the number of people who leave prison a long time before they have served their full sentences. I understand allowances are made because of overcrowding in prisons. Where offenders are given an option of six months in prison or completing a community service order, they realise they may be released within a short period if they choose prison and that they must make a greater commitment if they choose the order. It is important that those who are sentenced to six or 12 months in prison on refusing a community service order serve their sentences in full. While remission for good behaviour should continue, no prisoner should be released earlier than this would allow. If they are released too early, the concept of community service orders falls asunder. The legislation is welcome and deserves the full support of the House. I am delighted that all groups and parties in the House are supporting it.

It is well worth spending money to make further resources available to the probation and welfare service. Imprisonment has not worked and will not work and we should try to do everything possible to ensure the alternatives available through community service orders are chosen. I thank the Minister for introducing this legislation. I hope it will be implemented at a very early date.