Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)

I am glad to speak to the motion. It is important to recall its genesis, the genesis of the Hogan tax. We have heard of the Tobin tax and now we have the Hogan tax. Metered water charges are mentioned in all the manifestos of the main political parties. The Labour Party held out for a long time against them, but the Tánaiste, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, reversed course from one statement in June 2010 to another in October 2010. On 6 May the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, went on national television and spoke about a household utility charge to pay for water metering. That was the first time a household utility charge had been brought into play at any stage of the game. Then we had contradictory statements from the Minister himself, the Tánaiste and the Taoiseach. Tonight there is nothing about the household utility charge in the Minister's statement which conveniently is presented in very dense print. There is nothing also about the property tax. The reason there is nothing about the property tax or the household utility charge in this statement is that these are a function of the Department of Finance. When my colleagues and I lobbied to stop the household charge, I lobbied the Minister for Finance. When the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government came out and spoke about a flat-rate household utility charge, I was very concerned because I knew immediately that it was different from the household charge the Department of Finance would propose and which was included in the EU-IMF agreement. The Minister has rolled back somewhat from that position, but not in the official speech provided for him by the Civil Service. Nothing in the statement presented tonight in the Seanad indicates that flat rate water charges will not apply and that there will not be a household utility charge, separate from the site value tax and the household charge, which I would have thought would be introduced by the Department of Finance. I do not know what the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government is doing dealing with a household charge, but in the previous Government the then Minister, former Deputy John Gormley, had nothing to do with it.

That is from where the confusion stems. We want to tell people that if they are against flat rate household charges, against which I have consistently been, as have many of my colleagues, particularly for water, they should support the motion. If they wish to allow the Minister to do his own thing and introduce a separate flat rate charge to pay for metering, then they should support the Fine Gael proposal. That is very clear. We are not saying people will not be able to afford to bathe their children or to afford to drink water. We are not scaremongering, but we are looking for direction and leadership. The Opposition should not be blamed for causing the confusion. Fianna Fáil's position was very clear; it supported metered water charges and a household charge. What is the reason for supporting a household charge? In the IMF document and our stated policy document it is not to fund water metering but to readjust the entire taxation system because the taxation policies of the previous Government, of which I was a representative, were found to be wanting. We reduced income tax rates too much and the property tax base was narrowed significantly. These policies were fully endorsed and supported by Fine Gael and the Labour Party throughout the years of the boom. That is why the Fine Gael-Labour Party Government is bringing in a site value tax now. It has nothing to do with water charges. Let us keep water charges as a separate issue. Metered water charges have their advantages. However, Fianna Fáil Senators want to know if there will be a separate household utility charge, separate from the household charge proposed by the Department of Finance. That is the key question and it has not been answered. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, for all his bluster about charges, has not addressed this key issue.

The other day Senator Sean Barrett spoke about local government efficiency. I support the introduction of a new water company. Provision of water is better done at a national level. The Minister also talks about retaining expertise in local government. That cannot work. We need to provide water as efficiently as possible and staff will be transferred from local government to the new water company. This could be done in the manner of the transfer of a business. Staff will be retained by local government, creating a big issue for the Government. If we have a water company as well as separate local government water services, water charges will be very expensive, even unaffordable. It is important that the supply and metering of water be done as efficiently as possible. Water metering must pay for itself and become a mechanism to ensure efficiency, reduced consumption and reduced cost to the State.

I share some of the concerns expressed by Sinn Féin about where the money will go. There is never a reserved pot of money from specific charges. Taxation income is never ring-fenced, no matter what anyone says. It all goes into the Central Fund. Senator John Crown is right to mention this.

For all his criticism of Fianna Fáil, the Minister praised the previous Government for the investment it made in water services. He has boasted about what the Department has done. It did this under a Green Party Minister in a Fianna Fáil-led Government. We are glad the Minister has acknowledged that significant improvements have occurred. However, the confusion remains. Everyone says we will have a metered water charge. It is said the Government has not made a decision on the household utility charge. The Minister tried to say the household utility charge was, in fact, the flat rate household charge mentioned in the IMF agreement. What does the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government have to do with the household charge? It is not his function. That is why I am not surprised he did not mention the flat rate charge, as it has nothing to do with his Department. Perhaps he might clarify the matter.

We have raised serious issues and I call on anyone opposed to flat rate water charges to support the Fianna Fáil motion. Those who are willing to go along with the confused position may support the Government. The confusion stems from the Government side, not the Opposition.