Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)

-----and a rush to acquire a site when various other locations within existing prisons could have been availed of, the inspector states he is conscious that the intention is that the new prison will replace Mountjoy Prison and that it might be considered understandable that in the interim little has been done at Mountjoy Prison, but this cannot be taken as an excuse for denying prisoners their basic human rights pending the building of the new prison.

An important point with regard to standards in Mountjoy Prison and other prisons such as Cork Prison concerns the practice of slopping out. The Minister throws out figures, but this is not good enough or acceptable. He knows we are at risk, as the Inspector of Prisons points out, of litigation in this regard not only in the Irish courts but also in the international arena.

The Minister referred to drugs and mobile phones in prisons. Again, there is no control. He also referred to gangland crime. The priority of any sane prison, sentencing and justice policy should be to ensure those guilty of the most serious crimes are prosecuted and committed, where appropriate. However, we have a situation - the Minister knows this, although he never admits it - where gangland crime is out of control. He referred to the Fines Act and has made various excuses as to why it has not been commenced. The fact is that we sentence people for minor crimes and they are clogging up the prisons, while we fail to imprison the serious gangland crime perpetrators, despite a series of rushed legislative measures last year which the Minister stated were imperative because he wanted to round them up before the end of the summer.

I will refer to a number of points made in the Minister's statement. He gave figures for the numbers in prison - 3,881 in 2009. However, the report of the Inspector of Prisons issued in July stated there were 4,478 people are in our prisons. The Minister has mentioned it is misleading to suggest problems can be solved overnight by the greater use of alternatives to custody. However, no one is suggesting they can be solved overnight. On numerous occasions in his report the Inspector of Prisons points out that one does not expect the problems of overcrowding and low standards in our prisons to be solved overnight. However, the appropriate policies need to be adjusted.

The Minister went on to state he would turn to the issue of prison overcrowding. However, he did not address it, rather he spoke about the rates of imprisonment which is a different question altogether. He avoided the very issue we are here today to address. He referred to the priorities of previous Governments. What are the priorities of the Government? He mentioned the new criminal courts complex built on Parkgate Street. What are the priorities if one compares standards in our prisons, the need for prison spaces and proper facilities in prisons with the extraordinary expenditure on the new criminal courts complex?

The Minister has stated releasing serious offenders onto the streets is not an option. Here, once again, he picks up on an argument that has never been made. Who suggests such a thing? What has been suggested is that we should look at the overall prison population, its composition and whether the system can contain and accommodate such numbers with standards that comply with constitutional principles and our international obligations.

With regard to activities for prisoners, the Minister spoke about a wide range of training workshops operating in the institutions and listed some activities. However, again, he made no reference to the report of the Inspector of Prisons which stated:

In prisons where workshops and educational facilities are provided it should be assumed that relevant structured activities are available for all prisoners in such prisons. This is not always the de facto position as such facilities may not be operating to their capacity or may not be operating at all. An example of the latter can be found in Portlaoise Prison where new workshops, finished to the highest standard, have been built in the new C wing. Apart from two, these workshops have not been commissioned.

The inspector went on to state, "Having regard to the matters outlined in this chapter I have concluded that relevant structured activity should be available for all prisoners wishing to avail of such activities for a minimum of five hours each day for five days a week". The standards and overcrowding in our prisons and the problems they create in terms of the ability of prisoners to avail of proper facilities, have reasonable standards of accommodation and leave open the prospect of rehabilitation and not reoffending when they are released from prison are matters the Minister has not addressed.

To return to the Thornton Hall project, the reality is that the Minister has suspended many projects, particularly with regard to Mountjoy Prison, because it all depends on the Thornton Hall project providing a panacea for the problems of overcrowding and standards in our prisons. However, this is so far from reality - notwithstanding the Minister's statement today - that it does not exonerate the Government in dealing with the current crisis in Mountjoy Prison as highlighted by the recent disturbance.

The Minister is a late convert to the idea of community service as an alternative to handing down prison sentences for minor crimes. However, again, we are waiting and all we have is promised legislation. The Fines Act, to which I referred, was signed into law at the end of May but has not yet been commenced and no good reason has been provided as to why this is the case.

To return to the report of the Inspector of Prisons, what he states is that all prisons must satisfy three criteria, namely, appropriate accommodation, adequate services and regimes, and prison safety. The prison population must be reduced to the point where all three conditions will be satisfied. This seems to be a good starting point. The inspector states a policy needs to be adopted at Government level to limit prison numbers and strive to keep the population below a level where these basic standards can be adhered to. In many ways, this is a self-evident proposition but instead we have the ad hoc approach adopted by the Government, with serious overcrowding which is detrimental to the standards applied to prisoners, their possibilities of being properly accommodated and providing an opportunity to avail of education and rehabilitation.

The inspector makes a very good point in his report which I welcome, that he has received total co-operation from the Irish Prison Service and management in all prisons. They have been open to suggestions to deal with the issues he has raised and highlighted in his reports. He calls for a two-pronged approach with the stabilisation of the prison population and a building and refurbishment programme to meet our obligations as set out in the report. This is the way forward. The Minister alluded to a two-pronged approach, but I do not think it is the same approach suggested by the inspector.

We have the Fines Act and a commitment from the Minister on the need for community service legislation.

We have to look afresh at the sentencing policies which are propagated by the Oireachtas, especially with regard to sentences imposed by the District Court as distinct from sentences imposed by a higher court. Perhaps the parole system needs to be put on a mandatory basis in order that early release or non-committal for minor offences can be accommodated.

The two-pronged approach suggested by the Inspector of Prisons and Places of Detention is the way forward in light of the standards which the State is obliged to effect in its prisons. The sentencing policy such as the community services alternative to committal for minor offences is very important. When the Minister has the time, I suggest the commencement of the Fines Act would be a good start to minimise committals to prisons.