Brendan Ryan (Labour)

It is important all these services are provided and not interrupted in any way by the restructuring process, as mentioned by other Senators. The valuable ongoing work in education must be at a level unaffected by this rationalisation. Some Senators raised concerns about such a potential outcome.

The Minister of State went to great lengths in speaking about implementation, indicating there will be no overarching outside body involved in implementing the changes. I have no problem with that. Neither do I have a problem that no board or director posts will be created. If we are to achieve a result, somebody must have ownership of the process. I have no problem with a director or project manager, seconded for 18 months from a senior position within the service, being given ownership of the process. It might be a very positive career opportunity if somebody achieves the delivery; this would probably happen in the private sector. We have so much experience of issues being put on the long finger that something along these lines is essential. In addition to the project management approach we must have key deliverables and timelines; in essence, it should be a project management plan.

The Minister of State referred to an expansion of remits for the VECs, and this is an ideal opportunity to create something like a local education board or authority. The Minister of State has indicated that no decisions have been taken on the name but it is important to consider the opportunity to expand the remit. The Minister of State noted some of the changes, which are very positive, including procurement and shared services. This concerns not only VEC schools but all education establishments within the region. Another area is categorised in the Minister of State's speech, where principals of schools are snowed under while trying to manage schools. They are trying to be managers of facilities etc. and many are struggling under the pressure. The Department should consider the possibility of extending that remit to support schools where principals are struggling in this regard.

We must make clear decisions on what must be done and action must be quick. Speed of action is very important. We are debating changes in management and the longer a process goes on, the more resistance to change builds. If a timescale is set and delivered, the potential for resistance is lessened.

The changes involved in the process are in line with the Croke Park agreement, and the sector would be seen to deliver the changes specified in the agreement. It is important to consider voluntary redundancies as we saw what happened with the HSE. We have had much debate on what the HSE was supposed to be and what it is not, as well as the layers of management left behind. We should learn our lesson from the establishment of the HSE and ensure the reorganisation of the VECs does not replicate its problems. There should be opportunities for voluntary redundancies and for people to move sideways through various organisations.

The Government has a real opportunity to reform the VECs but it must listen to those people within the committees. They must listen to the VECs. This will be implemented by officials in the Department. The Minister of State referred to the need for consultation with major stakeholders but it is important the stakeholders are listened to because the officials in the Department, one of whom is in the House, do not have experience of the reorganisation process and will also be learning. It is important that the key stakeholders, including trade unions and various bodies, are listened to.

In terms of the implementation plan, while the project plan, project manager and steering committee are all essential, I ask the Minister of State to reconsider the need for a director or someone to take ownership of the project. The Minister of State said the new configuration can, over time, yield savings in the region of €3 million. I would have preferred this to be that it will deliver savings, not just over time but within a specific timeframe. Is the saving of €3 million to which the Minister of Stage referred an annual saving? Does it include once-off savings associated with the sale of various buildings?

I wish the project well. If the Government can do this, it may avoid creating another overstaffed and costly body such as the HSE. We should learn from that, do the right thing and not make the same mistakes again.