David Norris (Independent)

I thank my friend and colleague, Senator Quinn, for allowing me some of his time. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Haughey. I was also struck by the passionate advocacy of my colleague on the Fianna Fáil benches.

What I find of interest here is that an bord snip nua basically recommended a very substantial cut, namely, that the number of VECs should be reduced from 33 to 22, a cut of exactly one third. The Government has decided to go further and cut it by more than half. This is a drastic cut and I am not sure the Minister has adequately spelled out the implications in terms of a reduction in staff and how that will be achieved - whether through wastage, voluntary redundancy or otherwise - and also in terms of the provision of services. Finally, there is mention of the question of the disposal of premises.

In case I omit to get to this point, let me front-load it and in a very parochial way direct the Minister of State's attention to the occupation of No. 20 North Great George's Street, a very fine house, once the home of Sir Samuel Ferguson. It is currently occupied by the VEC, which does remarkable, wonderful work through the Youthreach programme. I have questioned for many years whether it is the most appropriate use for that house. I want that work to continue because the house in question is spectacular. In light of what the Minister of State indicated, there is a distinct possibility that the house will come on the market. Will he endeavour to discover whether this is one of the properties which may be disposed of? If the answer is in the affirmative, will he indicate what will be the method of disposal? I recommend that he contact the North Great George's Street Preservation Society in order that it might be added in some way as an ornament to that street and to the city of Dublin. I remind him that the buildings on North Great George's Street are protected and appear on Dublin City Council's list 1. I am not trying to remove the VEC from the premises in question, I am merely stating that we should make the best possible use of it if it become vacant.

I have great admiration for the work done by the vocational education committees. The Minister of State provided a useful potted history in that regard. There are some aspects of that work which I would regret seeing diminished. I refer, for example, to the adult literacy scheme for members of the traveller community. It would be a great shame if this scheme were reduced in any way. This is a scheme which must be retained.

I listened with great interest and respect to the contributions of Senator Quinn and Ormonde. Senator Quinn, in particular, referred to the Student Support Bill. I will be taking an interest in that legislation and asking some questions which may give rise to some slight expense. I am of the view that, when it comes to education, we should foster all the children of the national equally. Is it appropriate that Griffith College and similar institutions should be completely excluded from the provisions of the Bill to which I refer? I say this particularly in light of the fact that some years ago a student at Griffith College pursued a successful legal action. This created a precedent which the Government has not followed.

I accept that we are living in extremely difficult times and that everyone is seeking cuts. However, we must ensure that such cuts do not damage the education sector, particularly the part of it which deals with 29% of all post-primary pupils. I would welcome further details in respect of the exploratory manoeuvres relating to encouraging the VECs to provide primary level education.

Like Senator Quinn, I am intrigued by the proposal to amalgamate the County Dublin and Dún Laoghaire VECs, with Dublin City VEC being left as it currently stands. I presume this is because the criteria of size, function and expense do not suggest that the latter is appropriate for this type of rationalisation.

With regard to the proposal to merge City of Waterford, County Waterford and Tipperary South Riding VECs, the geographical area involved is quite extensive. I visited Waterford and addressed the Waterford Institute of Future Education, which is a remarkable and terrific local initiative. There is major potential for replicating what the Waterford Institute of Future Education has done elsewhere. I wish to put to the Minister of State a question that most people in the covered area wish to pose. I can do so and not be accused of having an axe to grind because I have no discernible connections with Waterford city or county. It is one of the few parts of Ireland in respect of which I cannot establish some form of connection.