Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)

This is a subject which is close to my heart. As a teacher and a career guidance counsellor, I worked on a wide variety of educational courses and disadvantage problems within the VEC system. I was also a member of County Dublin VEC for nine years. I am well equipped to speak on this subject, therefore.

I pay tribute to the innovative and professional people involved in the VEC system over the past 80 years, including its staff and those who served on its committees. They were real teachers and professionals, and they reflected the needs of their day. They knew when to design new courses or change curricula. I recall the period many moons ago when they had to start thinking about how to help the drop-outs of society by containing them in the school structure and designing courses to meet their needs. Every time, the VECs rose to the challenge of providing courses that could save those who were not suited to academic education. I value the VECs and their contribution to this country. They must be asking themselves how they will address the challenges we will face in the future.

I have asked myself why the present 33 VECs should be amalgamated to 16. For some of them, it is because student enrolment has shrunk. We must reform the VECs so they serve the future of their counties. The proposed amalgamation is not intended to do away with VECs but to give them a new life and a new structure in which the links with their respective counties are reinforced. That is the essence of democracy, education and community. The links with local authorities are important in terms of bringing democracy because local representatives know the students in their communities. This representation cannot be diminished in any way. VEC committees will be more efficient and produce more effective thinking about implementing programmes that serve the needs of society in the future. I do not want to dilute their power because we need VECs now more than ever.

It will take 18 months to implement the proposed rationalisation. Concerns have arisen that the links with local government will be broken. What will happen in the case of VECs from smaller counties which are merged with those of bigger counties? I ask the Minister of State's opinion on whether the local link will be diminished.

VECs are deep rooted in their local communities and the courses they offer are many and varied. They offer group certificates, transition courses, skills training, leaving certificate and post-leaving certificate courses, the vocational training opportunities scheme, second chance education and life-long learning programmes. They can tap into an area to find out what is needed. They offer excellent career guidance services and a home school link service which reaches out to primary schools. I welcome the new model of community national schools because there should be continuity between primary and secondary education, particularly in disadvantaged areas. Problems at second level in the vocational sector often arise first at primary level. There are no better organisations than the VECs for digging to the root of problems. They should start providing education to children from the age of four to ensure they are not deprived of the chance of an education. The Youthreach service brings students who dropped out at the age of 14 back into the system. The leaving certificate applied programme, which is not available in secondary schools, is a superb programme for those who are not academically bright but have a natural tendency towards the vocational end of the educational system. I want the VECs to be further empowered to reach out to communities to provide these programmes so we can make sure we no longer have drop-outs in our society. If restructuring produces that result, I will support it.

In respect of the cost implications, I found the following comment from the Minister of State to be somewhat convoluted:

Under the revised structure, the smallest VEC will have a budget of €39 million and the median for the individual budget measure of scale of operations will move from €26 million at present to €59 million, with 13 of the 16 new VEC entities having a budget of €50 million or more.

I do not know what that means but perhaps he will enlighten me. The bottom line is that we want to provide a better service while reducing costs.

We must engage in a consultation process with teachers, staff, CEOs and committees. Until these consultations are completed, we cannot make final decisions. I do not doubt that everyone will agree with the rationalisation programme, provided VECs are empowered to provide courses that reflect students' needs and give them opportunities to move into the world of work. The expertise involved in adult education in the areas of literacy and numeracy is first class.

I have always felt the City of Dublin VEC was the model we should work towards in terms of support services, psychological services and helping those who have dropped out of society. That model should be considered as one that can be used in many counties. It is not that small is beautiful; the small VECs were excellent in their day but numbers are reducing, changes have taken place in the way of life and new community schools and secondary schools have been amalgamated under the VECs. Matters have changed drastically in recent years and it is important we rationalise this, reflect the needs of the future and ensure we complement the work done by the teachers. It is teachers who understand the work and who have designed courses which will reflect the future and ensure no child will be deprived of an education to suit his or her needs, be it a skills need or a vocational need. When we do this, it will be welcome.

We must involve the stakeholders, discuss the issues, sit around the table and then come back with the results. I look forward to the Bill that will come through the Houses. I am glad to have this debate because it gives us an opportunity to make known our views as to how we should move forward with this amalgamation. There should not be any confrontation on the issue. I am sure teachers, the CEOs, the staff, the committees and the local authorities will go with it, provided they are empowered to deliver education for the disadvantaged of the future.