Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. While this proposal is interesting, I wish to tease it out a little. My understanding at the outset is that the Minister of State is pursuing the €3 million in savings proposed by Professor McCarthy in the report by an bord snip nua. My proposal to the Minister of State is that this money can be saved without mergers in most cases and that, most importantly, the education service can be saved. The feedback I have received from managers, tutors and administrative staff is that the education service is likely to be compromised until a smooth merger can take place, if ever. Consequently, I was glad to hear the praise given at the outset by the Minister of State to the work of the VECs. Having worked in a number of different sectors, namely, primary, third level and various types of education provision at second level, I have been hugely impressed by the diversity of education offered by VECs nationwide. I refer in particular to diversity with regard to population groups and age spans. Moreover, as the Minister of State rightly noted, VECs also are moving into the new area of primary school patronage. Certainly, however, I am most pleased that the VECs serve those on the margins. I refer to those who are socially disadvantaged and important target groups such as adult education students who return to education and students who were let down by schools with regard to literacy.

Having spoken to managers, tutors and administrative staff, the general reaction to the merger is that it will cost more trouble and money than it is worth. No two VECs do things in the same way. Therefore, it will take years before any merger will result in a smooth operation, if that ever happens. I note the Minister of State speaks of 18 months. It will be interesting to see whether that can be achieved. My concern is that in these intervening years more money will be spent on meetings of committees and sub-committees than it is hoped to save. In the meantime, the students will lose out while all these meetings go on. That needs to be taken into consideration.

The adult education proposals are a potential nightmare. We must look carefully at those groups that have been let down by education systems early in their lives. The Minister of State may think it is not good that VECs operate autonomously. On the contrary, they provide for local needs. People in County Tipperary North Riding VEC will not understand the range of programmes the County Clare VEC offers. What if someone in County Kerry VEC wants to run a programme for Irish speakers in a rural area? Will someone in City of Limerick VEC understand that? These are the amalgamations the Minister is proposing.

Has anyone calculated the increase in travel costs for co-ordinators, managers, tutors and administrative people? If there is a meeting of school principals, officers and co-ordinators every month, as there is in most VECs, it will cost a fortune annually in travel costs for all of them to go to a central office. I ask the Minister of State to clarify how he plans to address this. Will he retain travel costs, will fewer people travel or will travel costs be abolished? This merger is likely to increase travel costs because of the huge distances covered, especially in rural VECs.

There is good news. There are many ways of saving. Currently, there is a huge amount of waste. For example, the chief executive officer of City of Galway VEC has done an incredible job of making the administration in head office in Island House work with less, which is what everyone should be doing. My information does not come from the chief executive officer of City of Galway VEC but from some of his staff who see the changes and efficiencies he has made. This type of activity should be carried out across the board. Finance managers, human resources managers, principals of further education colleges, adult education officers, adult literacy officers, community education officers and, to a lesser degree, principals of second level schools should be looking to see how they can scale down and be more cost effective. It can be done. The policy of City of Galway VEC is to do more with less. For example, when the current chief executive officer took over, Island House had a staff of 25. He now has considerably fewer and the staff are motivated by the chief executive officer to do more. That model must be looked at. I make an exception for second level schools. They are working on tight budgets. I am talking about the other providers within the VEC sector.

Here are other examples of where micro-level adjustment could save bags of money. A large number of education officers were appointed after the last education plan was written. In most VECs, excluding Cork and Dublin because they are very large, this position is arguably superfluous. The position of education officer has a salary of approximately €100,000. What can that be compared to in other sectors? Senior management should consist of a chief executive officer and finance officer. Leadership for education should come from the chief executive officer. After all, the chief executive officer should be an educational leader. The new role of education officer appears to duplicate the role of other officers. The pursuit of chief executive officers by the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Coughlan, and the amalgamation of VECs smacks of window dressing. This is not the way to go.

Some question the need for adult education officers, with salaries of €90,000, in small VECs where there is only one literacy centre, one vocational training opportunities scheme, VTOS, one Youthreach scheme and one back to education initiative. It is felt that the co-ordinators of these can do the job well enough and can be managed by the chief executive officer. This is not, however, the case in large VECs such as Cork, Dublin, Clare and County Galway where there are numerous Youthreach, VTOS and adult education or literacy centres. In these cases, an overseeing manager is necessary.

One size does not fit all. The Minister must dig down deep and make a better assessment of the situation. I agree that a central purchasing unit in a VEC, instead of different centres doing their buying at higher prices, would save money. Budgets should be given out early to make for better planning. City of Galway VEC got its budget this year in May. Such lateness can force managers to spend money in senseless ways because if they do not spend it, they will not get the same allocation in the following year. That is poor planning and allocation of budget by the Department. When would be better? Obviously, the first week of January. If I am planning for the year 2010 I need to get my money early so that I can plan my spending.

VECs should also combine for services such as information and communications technology, ICT, and I understand the Minister is looking at this. Why not have one of the western VECs, for example, control all IT maintenance for the region and purchase en bloc? This could be done and would save money. There can be savings in paper use, photocopying and postage. Absenteeism should be better monitored. At present, VECs engage outside consultants to do research. There is no need for that. There are excellent people in VECs throughout the country. It is in these areas that there should be amalgamation and co-ordination of expertise. There is much money to be saved in these areas.

I say this because VECs are education providers and our primary concern is for the good of the student. Let us keep the student first. In the end, the student will lose out if larger provincial committees merge with smaller ones. There is the ridiculous situation in some VECs where the finance manager controls the literacy budget. Managers must approach the finance manager to request, for example, finance for five people who need a class. In other VECs, the logical situation occurs where the literacy or adult education manager controls the budget and proactively provides programmes and offers opportunities. In City of Galway VEC, for example, almost 2,500 students were provided with programmes this year. This would not have been possible had the finance manager been regulating the literacy manager's budget. If managers do not control their own budgets, students - the very people looking for jobs - will lose out. The right person must get the budget. Autonomy for the person in charge of the budget is critical.

The divisions or borders appear to have been drawn by a child with a Biro in his hand for the first time. Even if there is merging, the combination makes no sense. Why would one put County Clare with County Tipperary North Riding or City of Limerick with County Kerry? Why not put County Tipperary North Riding with County Tipperary South Riding, for example? Why is County Donegal not to be merged with any other VEC? No one can explain this. Can the Minister of State explain this preferential treatment for Donegal? Everyone believes this is because the Minister is from Donegal. Will the Minister of State address this? The combinations indicate a window dressing operation that has not been thought out. To do any sort of combining, much research would have to be done first. Mr. Colm McCarthy is an economist who only looks at budgets and salaries of administrative staff. Did he visit a VEC to see the services it provides to the public or to see how best to merge it? I doubt it.

I recommend that a ministerial order be sent to VECs to work towards efficiency and cost effectiveness by somewhere between 5% and 10%. The Minister did this already in late 2008 when VECs were told to cut administrative costs by 3%, and they were able to do it. This is letting the people on the ground do the scaling down. The Minister should let each VEC do the scaling down and give them a target of between 5% and 10%. They know where to make the cuts. My feedback reveals that we could save up to 10% more by doing the sort of efficiency management our chief executive officers can carry out.

Many VECs and the Irish Vocational Education Association, IVEA, are meeting this week in committee. Here are the questions I have been asked to put to the Minister of State. What criteria were used to come up with the proposed amalgamations? What is the proposed timeframe for the implementation of the amalgamation? What legislative amendments are necessary for implementation and what timeframe will apply to these? What approach will be taken to implementation and what stakeholders will be involved? What will be the cost of rebranding the newly merged VECs? In regard to the structure of new committees, I presume that political appointments will continue to be made. What will happen to existing acting CEOs?

Before deciding on a merger, I ask the Minister of State to offer each VEC an opportunity to scale down by 5% to 10%, or whatever is required to reach the €3 million figure. He will thereby save time, money and, above all, the education service, which is our most valuable resource.