David Norris (Independent)

I propose to share time with Senator Pearse Doherty.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Martin Mansergh, who is a regular visitor to the House. Before Senator Mary White leaves the Chamber, I should point out how impressed I was, as usual, with her balanced and considered contribution, which offered a mixture of realism and hope for the future. This is terribly important at such a critical juncture. Tomorrow morning, I will speak at a breakfast for a group of significant international figures. While I will certainly face the situation as it is, I will also give the optimistic view about the resources of this country, intellectually, in our young people and in the imagination and capacity we have. I will say a little more about this as I go along.

These are difficult times. I felt a shudder of fear when the Minister recently announced that Anglo Irish Bank could cost €34 billion. This upper figure, which is the more likely cost, is particularly shocking because it appears we will get nothing back from it. Having stated previously in the House that the figure would most likely be €34 billion, it did not come as a complete shock to hear the Minister refer to a cost of €34 billion. I placed it on the record of the House not because of my own innate genius but because I had been contacted by Peter Matthews as a result of earlier comments I made in the House. Mr. Matthews is a very driven man, which can alienate some people, but his figures have been consistently right. I ask the Minister to consider taking advice from a group of people whom he may not find completely sympathetic. I could list individuals such as Peter Matthews, Dr. Constantin Gurdgiev and Professor Brian Lucey from Trinity College. It would be good if the Minister were to take advice from this group on how to get rid of Anglo Irish Bank at the cheapest price possible. That is one suggestion.

I note that the Fitch ratings agency today downgraded Ireland's credit rating again. It has a hell of cheek. I suspect the Minister of State may agree with my view that there should be a radical examination of the role played by all the ratings agencies and they should be replaced by an agreed international, independent, professionally qualified and good ratings agency. That is the least we are entitled to following the kind of nonsense with which we have been faced.

It is daunting that nearly half a million people are unemployed, even though the position appears to be marginally better, if one factors in all the other elements, than it was during the last really difficult recession through which I lived. I have made many comments about this, but I will not repeat them here. The Minister is aware of these comments and may or may not agree with them. However, I have come up with original ideas in respect of the economy. I will not rehearse them, but I will support some proposals brought forward by others, of which I have recently become aware.

Senator O'Toole and I have pointed out that on today's Order Paper there are three items of Government legislation and 16 Private Members' Bills. However, one item is missing. I was listening to a discussion on radio in recent days involving distinguished politicians, thinkers and economists and was immediately struck by one of the suggestions made. Ireland is paying three times the amount in interest that Germany is paying on its bonds. There is approximately €24 billion in the National Pensions Reserve Fund and a technical glitch is stopping us from purchasing our own bonds. Is buying our own bonds not an obvious course of action to pursue? Is it not possible to examine the legal hitch that is preventing action being taken in this regard?

Let us consider the benefits to be gained in pursuing this course. We would be investing in our own country and paying these absurdly high rates of interest to ourselves. The money would not go to the international market but remain at home. I am not claiming credit for this proposal, as it was not my idea. However, when I first heard it being espoused, I thought it was a damn good suggestion. I inquired of colleagues whether there was a legal hitch and was informed that there was such a hitch. We can, however, get rid of it. In the absence of Government legislation, let us take the relevant Private Members' Bill in order that we might obtain the interest to which I refer.

We could raid the National Pensions Reserve Fund. We should take a risk in this regard. I am a pensioner and of the view that either the country will go completely down the drain or we could use the money to which I refer and get it back later. Let us consider the position of small and medium enterprises which are starved of cash. The banks are still not shelling out. There are companies which are going to the wall but which would not be doing so if they had access to what are pitiful sums of money. Let us take a small proportion of the money in the National Pensions Reserve Fund and allocate it to the small and medium enterprises which we know will thrive.

I do not know whether the suggestion I am about to make is original, but it strikes me as being bloody obvious. An estimate has been made of the value of the gas and oil resources that will be taken from the Corrib field during its lifetime and the number those involved arrived at is €500 billion. That is ten times the level of our complete exposure to the banks. However, we have given this money away. That wonderful philanthropist and former Minister, Mr. Ray Burke, gave the resources of the people to Shell. It is time we renegotiated with it.