Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy White. Like my colleague Senator Harris, I declare a vested interest in that I broadcast with RTE and one or two local radio stations, so I must be aware that whenever I speak on broadcasting matters I may be accused of representing one side or the other.

The new structures, as Senator Twomey said, will take some time to evolve and develop their own ethos. However, I hope they will seriously consider not issuing any more radio licences for this island, which is already overcrowded with radio stations. A number of radio stations that were granted licences in recent years have been struggling. It is all about diversity, and I appreciate this is the reason for the proliferation of licences. The old Broadcasting Commission of Ireland, with Michael O'Keeffe at the helm from the very beginning, moved cautiously in this regard, seeking out opinions and consulting widely on gaps in the waveband with regard to generic broadcasting, whether it was jazz, minority interests or anything else. However, we have now reached saturation point. Already, some of the recently licensed radio stations are beginning to suffer financially.

The other element on which I want to focus is slightly to one side in terms of the role of the authority. I refer to the status of Irish traditional and folk music in our society. Since deregulation in 1990, we have become similar to the UK, the USA and most developed countries in that we now effectively have wall-to-wall pop music from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., which is the period in which the most money is made. I must separate RTE from this analysis because Radio 1 is a talk station, with only one music programme during the day, "The Ronan Collins Show", which deserves to be commended because it reflects the wide diversity of musical tastes in this country. His programme is primarily listener-based and he actively encourages people to e-mail or write to him expressing their particular musical interests, which he reflects; that is why his show is so successful. However, the remainder of the 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. period on Radio 1 is talk radio, and good talk radio at that. It is the finest example of public service broadcasting.

The second RTE radio station, 2FM, was set up primarily as a pop music channel; there are those who would question its continuing survival in light of the number of alternative radio stations, but it does fulfil an important role in that it was set up as a counterbalance to Radio 1 for the younger generation. In fact, I was privileged to broadcast on the first night of what was then known as Radio 2, in the slot between Dave Fanning and the late Gerry Ryan, God rest him.

Lyric FM was set up to cater for a particular taste in music, although it has since broadened its remit considerably, which I welcome. It has gone into what it refers to as world music and diverged from a strictly classical format. We are then left with Today FM, the independent national music station, and the local radio stations. A cursory listen in whatever part of the country one is in - with some exceptions, particularly along the west coast - will show that these consist primarily of wall-to-wall pop. One could be in Los Angeles or New York; the only difference is the accent, although in some cases the accents have become transatlantic, so one might really think one was in LA or New York. I have often wondered why people cannot just talk in the accent God gave them.

Irish traditional folk music is an international brand. As somebody with strong links to the tourism industry and as a former chairman of Fáilte Ireland North West, I like to feel I speak with a certain amount of authority in this regard, although I do not want to be pompous about it. If we look at any survey conducted in recent years, one of the top three reasons people come to this country is music, specifically Irish music, yet it would be hard to hear Christy Moore, Mary Black, De Danann or any of the plethora of Irish traditional folk music groups and singers on radio between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m., but one will hear them after 7 p.m. at 10 p.m. and 11 p.m. I have never been able to understand the reason programme controllers have not tapped into what is an exceptionally popular form of music. I will quote a specific instance. My friend and colleague, Senator Ó Murchú, raised this issue some years ago when there was great hoo-ha about Dublin City Council granting a licence for an open air pop concert in the Phoenix Park that would attract 40,000 people. He pointed out that Fleadh Cheoil na hÉireann attracted over 250,000 people each year, yet we never heard anything about it. In fairness, the printed media cover it, but listening to the radio, one would never be aware that 250,000 people gather at the event which this year will take place in Cavan. I wish the organisers well and have no doubt it will be of tremendous economic as well as cultural benefit to the people of the region. That is the point I am trying to make.

When I first started this argument in the early 1980s, the main emphasis was on providing a quota. We looked at the Canadian system. Senator Harris may be aware that in Canada there is a quota system, under which two out of four criteria must be fulfilled to comply with the law. The criteria are that a song must have been written by a Canadian, published by a Canadian, be available on a Canadian record label or by a Canadian artist. If two of these four criteria are fulfilled, one fulfils the obligation. Unfortunately, because of Treaty of Rome obligations and it would be seen as anti-competitive, we are not able to introduce a similar quota system in this country. Radio stations would resist quotas. They resisted them in Canada, but Canada has not only protected its indigenous music industry but it has also promoted it to the point where in the past 20 years I understand the practice has developed rather than law to the point where programme controllers are now comfortable with the idea of playing Canadian music alongside international music.

The French have decided to bypass the Treaty of Rome obligations and recently introduced a quota law, under which a percentage of the songs played on national and local radio have to be in the French language. They are protecting their language. If we were to apply a similar law here to the effect that radio stations had to play a percentage of Irish language songs, that would not be fair or feasible, even though there are some fine songs as gaeilge that one can regularly pick up on CDs and which sell well. My argument which I intend to pursue is that there is a case to be made to harness what is an international brand, namely, Irish traditional and folk music. I am not talking about country and Irish music as such which is a separate genre and one I will not shy away from, but for the purposes of the argument, I am looking at what is accepted as an international brand.

U2 has done marvellous work. I have tremendous admiration for Bono and the members of U2 who are proud to be Irish and fly the Irish flag wherever they go, but, with all due respect to them, if we were to separate the patriotism and nationalism from their music, they could just as well be from Los Angeles as from south County Dublin because there is no sound that makes them distinctively Irish. Unfortunately for us and the Exchequer, most of the international bands such as U2, The Cranberries and The Corrs are tied to British based record labels and publishing companies. As a result, 93% of the song writing royalties collected by the Irish Music Rights Organisation from Irish radio stations leaves the country. Their publishing companies are not even based here, which would be of some benefit to the Exchequer. In case Members think that is small potatoes, so to speak, in its prime in the late 1970s, ABBA was seen to be generating as much money for the Swedish Exchequer as Volvo. It was second only to Volvo in generating international earnings from its music and publishing rights because everything was based in Sweden, but that is a separate argument. However, there is an argument to be made, not only from the point of view of supporting the indigenous industry which is struggling.

I constantly receive e-mails from practising performers who are finding it extremely difficult to get work because the oxygen of publicity, to paraphrase Mrs. Margaret Thatcher, is absent from daytime radio in this country. The Minister of State might consider this when she is travelling home this evening. When do we hear on radio Christy Moore, Mary Black or any of the vast number of Irish traditional musicians and singers whose compositions are being bought by the thousand? People are voting with their money. They are buying the product, yet one will not hear it on radio. I rest my case.