Geraldine Feeney (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews. He is doing good work, and I note how quickly he read himself into his brief. Senator Fitzgerald and I sit on the Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children and of all Ministers, he certainly plays his part. That has to be acknowledged and is very much appreciated.

Where does one start when it comes to debating something like the Murphy report? I have taken it up over the past ten days and I can read only a couple of pages before putting it down again because my mind is not able to take it all in. I pick it up a few days later and have to read over what I have already looked at, because it is so unbelievable. Archbishop Diarmuid Martin was right in coming out six or eight months ago and flagging this as one of the worst reports in the history of the State. When somebody of his calibre says that, it is time to batten down the hatches, in the knowledge that this is to be an appalling horrific report. Even the archbishop's statement did not prepare politicians, however, for what they would read. Other media commentators have said the same in recent days. One opens and closes the report, re-opens and re-closes it. A report of this size will take several weeks, if not months, for people to read and come to terms with.

With Murphy, Ryan, Ferns and perhaps even more reports to come, I would consider this to be Ireland's "gulag" and complete shame on us, the people of the State of Ireland for allowing this to happen. It is an appalling situation. I do not know Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, but people who do say what a good man he is. I have no doubt he is a good man and is doing the best he can, with a terrible situation, to try and put it right.

I cannot understand, however, since he knew the enormity of this report and allowed it to be published and launched, and yet nothing has been put in place. I speak of the resignations that I hope are pending, of some of the bishops named in the report. I heard Archbishop Diarmuid Martin on the Sunday after the report was launched saying he did not have the authority to ask Bishop Murray in Limerick to resign or to dismiss him. A couple of days later, however, when public opinion was at its height and people were so enraged at what they were hearing and reading, Archbishop Martin wrote to the bishops named in the report and asked them to consider their positions, to look into their consciences and do the right thing by the church and the children who were abused. I should like to ask the archbishop why he could not have done this before the report was launched. Why was it not arranged so that we would have seen those resignations in the very hour the report was published? I hope the bishops involved will resign, but it seems they have waited to be pushed and it is somewhat too late for them to go now.

Since I was a child, I have always heard, "We are the brethren of the church". Was it not convenient for the clergy to let us know that we were the church, when they were looking for support, donations or recruits among families who gave sons and daughters to the religious life? Families have been wiped out by the abuse of children by clerics in this country. It is severe to term this Ireland's "gulag", but so horrific is the situation that this is how I see it. Directly behind the Houses of the Oireachtas is the Dr. Dermot Ryan Park. I believe it was owned by the church a long time ago, and at some stage there were plans for a cathedral to be built there. The church handed it over to the council many years ago, and out of gratitude it was called the Dr. Dermot Ryan Park. Dr. Dermot Ryan was one of the archbishops named in the report. I suggest to the Minster of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, that the park should now be renamed and the name, Dr. Dermot Ryan expunged from it. Let it be called anything, "the Children's Park", or whatever, but the late Dr. Ryan's name should no longer be associated with the park, because he does not deserve the honour.

The heroes in all of this are people such as Andrew Madden, Maria Collins and Colm O'Gorman who were brave enough to stand up. When they were disbelieved, they stood up and continued to speak out. On the incarceration and treatment of children, where do we begin to put that right for those who have been at the receiving end? I recall when I was a child and we still hear the church intone, "Suffer little children to come unto me" and the fact that Our Lord loved children and there was always a special place in the church for young children. Again, shame on us all, because we are all residents of this State where the most appalling cover-up was carried out by the church. It had to be aided and abetted by various arms of the State. That is why I conjure pictures of the "gulag" in my mind and am reminded of scenes from the former USSR.

Somebody talked on the radio this morning about the footage that accompanied the Murphy report. One saw a male in clerical garb going into a large dormitory, getting a young boy out of bed, the child kneeling down at the side of the bed, ostensibly to pray. Instead of joining his hands in prayer, however, he puts his entire face into his hands. Is the poor child saying, in effect, "Oh no, not another day of this terrible abuse".

Nobody is above the civil law and canon law cannot take a superior place over the law of the land. The Seanad is the right place to say that I hear the church leaders saying that canon law is not superior to the civil law, but I am not sure they believe this. I do not believe they see civil law as being superior to canon law. Going back 12 or 14 years to the terrible scandal for the church when it was revealed that Bishop Eamonn Casey in Galway had fathered a child, I recall the night Annie Murphy was on the "Late Late Show" with Gay Byrne, and she was given an awful rough time. I was shocked, as a young woman living in Ireland, that anybody should be treated like that. Gay Byrne gave her a hard time and the audience gave her an even harder one, as they jeered and mocked her. Annie Murphy was brave enough to admit her child had been fathered by a bishop of the Irish Catholic Church. While I have sympathy for Annie Murphy, I have greater sympathy for Eamon Casey. Archbishop Martin said he had no authority to seek the resignation of bishops identified in this report. Yet, the Irish church saw fit to banish a man like Eamon Casey for doing what comes natural to any human being, in terms of his being with a woman, to the furthest end of South America. I cannot recall the place to which they sent him. The church covers up and buries under the carpet what is natural and tries to pass off as being all right that which is unnatural by sending to different parishes clerics who have already violated complete families and communities.

On the Thursday and Friday following publication of the report every radio programme conducted an interview with a victim of the abuse. While these people found it so hard to articulate their story they did so in a manner which allowed the listener to understand what had happened to them. It was obvious these were people with broken lives who were finding it hard to stay in relationships, to maintain work or even live and that many had drug and alcohol problems. They had been left to suffer while the church got away with covering up the abuse.

Perhaps now is the time open up the debate on church and State and the involvement of the church in our schools and hospitals in particular. The State needs to take a proactive approach here. It is wrong that we, the taxpayer, pay for our schools yet we have no responsibility in terms of what happens to the children in those schools. Such issues are dealt with by boards of management, the chairman of which is usually the local parish priest or the bishop of the diocese. What can we expect when these are the people who are dealing with the complaints about the clerics?

I make the point that all clerics, priests and bishops are not bad. It is for the good ones that we need to continue to support the church. However, I find that very hard to do having read the Murphy report. While the scale of the abuse was so bad there are no words to describe it, the scale of the cover-up is appalling and should never be allowed to happen again. It is time to cut the strings between the church and State. I look forward to the Minister of State, Deputy Andrews, implementing the recommendations of the Ryan report. I believe when they are implemented Ireland will be a safer place for children.

We all know children can be abused in their own homes. We have seen evidence of such abuse often at the hands of their parents. However, while those mothers and fathers have all been imprisoned, we have yet to see any of the clerics identified in the Murphy report imprisoned for the abuse and terrible pain inflicted by them on this country.