John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)

I second the Oireachtas (Allowances to Members) and Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices Bill 2009 as proposed by the Leader. As a former shop steward and member of the Insurance and Finance Branch of SIPTU, I never thought I would see the day when I would be putting through a Bill that would reduce my terms and conditions of employment. However, the realities of the world are such that Ireland is no longer competitive in the world market and we are paying a very high price for that. To become competitive we must take certain steps, the first of which is to lead by example.

Senator Twomey and I have crossed swords on occasion but much of what he said tonight was very worthwhile and interesting and, whereas I might not agree with every aspect of it, it was beneficial to the overall debate. Our attempts to be seen to do the right thing by the national economy and to give guidance are made against the backdrop of previous experience in 1932 when a general depression set in. At that time the aim was to ensure people had enough. We are certainly past the days of people having enough. In many cases recently there was huge excess. I refer to the types of salaries in the private sector that caused outrage and caused us to wonder what types of jobs were being advertised at €700,000 per annum. These jobs were not for managing directors of a company but for heads of corporate compliance or something like that. The salaries were excessive and they were astounding to some of us, although we were being well paid.

I am conscious that we should ensure that everybody is treated fairly, and there was an attempt to do so in the supplementary budget. Many hours, days, weeks and months were spent working to ensure equity and fairness were achieved and that nobody was left out. If there are cuts in county councils I do not like to see the man with the shovel being the one asked to leave. I would like to see proportionate measures so that not just those least able to defend themselves or the less well-heeled are looked after, but everybody. It is on that aspect that we will ultimately be judged.

Times have changed. In different times we could afford more. It was always questionable that a pension should be paid to a sitting Member of the Oireachtas, particularly when ministerial pensions are generous by any standard. There is a reason they are generous, however. There are not many jobs where one needs to expend so much money. A Seanad campaign costs at least €30,000 while a Dáil campaign can cost €70,000. Many people spend less while others spend more. There are not many jobs that involve such expenditure. We have been fortunate in the past few years in that we have had five-year terms. In the 1980s, however, there were five Dáil elections, one in 1981, two in 1982, one in 1987 and one in 1989.