Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)

One of the good things to have emerged from the sorry debacle over recent days is the recognition yesterday that we cannot and should not carry out a range of new means tests. I have been saying this for a long time. While I put it to he Leader previously, I put it to him again that he should explore, with the Government, the removal of the means test for the non-contributory old age pension. The cost of administering that test is greater than any savings accrued, it is another source of terror for our old people and it is inequitable and wrong, given that most non-contributory old age pensioners are women who had to leave the workplace as a result of the marriage ban and very small farmers who did not have PRSI contributions.

The potential of the carer's allowance — this must be examined perhaps by way of a pilot scheme — to keep people out of institutional care has not yet been explored. I put it to the Leader that if the Government were to consider increasing the amount of the carer's allowance, perhaps by way of a pilot scheme in a limited area, but, more particularly, removing the means test, many people would opt to become carers in the current economic climate. That would keep people out of institutional care and save the State enormous amounts of money. I appeal to the Leader to consider that.

The Leader should provide clarity for this House on an issue raised earlier. I put it to him that the 5% figure of people who have an income of more than €35,000 could not possibly be right. Anecdotal evidence and that from our own range of friends would indicate that is not the case. The figure is more likely to be 15% to 20%. The 5% figure is wrong. It is a public relations spin. I ask the Leader to seek clarification on that for the sake of transparency.