Geraldine Feeney (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and thank him for his excellent presentation and the manner in which he delivered it. No Member was unimpressed or unaffected by the presentation and the manner of its delivery. We normally rise to welcome a Minister who is coming to the House to take a debate and we also welcome the subject of debate. Sadly, the Ferns Report cannot be welcomed by any of us. The report was published two weeks ago and made for the most horrible and sad reading. It turned my stomach. I was forced to read stories two or three times to take in the enormity of the abuse that occurred. Even then I felt a sense of incredulity that such abuse could have occurred but I realised that it could and did occur and that it could occur in the future.

The fact that such abuse took place beggars belief. Possibly, some abuse took place in an era when such matters were hidden and doors were closed in the faces of abuse victims. Nevertheless, the fact that this happened shames us all. Ireland is now a more open society and I hope what we read about in the past could never happen again.

I thank Mr. Justice Francis D. Murphy and his team for producing such a comprehensive report and the speed with which it was produced. The task cannot have been easy. What they discovered must have turned their stomachs. I thank the Most Reverend Eamonn Walsh, Apostolic Administrator to the Diocese of Ferns. It could not have been easy for him to enter the diocese and clean up the mess left for him. I also thank Colm O'Gorman from the One in Four organisation. He is a fine, articulate young man and Irish society owes him an enormous debt of gratitude. The firm manner in which he articulated what took place and his great work on behalf of fellow victims of clerical abuse would make any political party proud.

Child abuse is the most evil act a person can do. If an individual saw an animal being abused, it would have a terrible effect on him or her. I do not know the effect the abuse of a person's child would have on him or her. It is not just the abuse victim who suffers; his or her extended family also suffers.

Child abuse is not particular to the clergy and only a small minority of the clergy abuse children. We have been overwhelmed in recent years by stories of clerical child abuse. I spoke about the abuse of children in my own county of Sligo in this House. We have all read and know about the sexual and physical abuse of children by teachers, sports coaches, relatives and even parents.

However, we should not throw the baby out with the bath water and kick the Catholic Church when it is already on its knees. The common trend in child abuse is the position of power held by the abuser over the abused child. The major problem with the abuse of children by the clergy is the institutional cover-up and the disdain for the law of the land shown by those in authority in the church. The suggestion that Canon Law is superior to the law of the land is appalling. The fact that highly educated people in the church can hold such a view is mind-boggling. I do not believe they ever thought Canon Law did take precedence over civil law but it afforded them a means of covering up clerical child abuse.

The Minister, Deputy McDowell, spoke last week at the press conference establishing the investigation into the Dublin diocese's handling of child abuse allegations, of the necessity to learn from the past in order to protect the children of the future. The inquiry will be headed by Judge Yvonne Murphy, a mother, whom I wish well in her dealings in that regard. If we were to take anything from what has been said in this debate, the Minister's sentence is a good one on which to work. It is important we learn from the past, as bad, corrupt and evil as it was, but we must move on and protect the children of tomorrow.

The important message underlining this debate must be that only 6% of clerics have abused. The Minister of State can correct me if I am wrong. We should not kick them all when they are down. There are very good people among the clergy. I know that from first-hand experience. I received great support from the clergy at my hour of grieving when my late husband died. I know what it was for the clergy to come into my home and give me comfort. People get comfort from them and they are an important fabric of our society.

I was interested to read Mary Raftery's report on this issue in The Irish Times last week. She referred to the need for a nationwide investigation. The point of her article was that if the inquiry is localised, there will be great room for denial of that abuse. If the inquiry is nationwide, it will instill into our minds the enormity of that abuse — which we know is only the subject of allegations at this stage — if those allegations transpire to be well founded. In fairness to all those who have been abused, there is an onus on us as legislators to make sure there is an investigation of such abuse in every diocese. Some people in every diocese will say that their diocese is not Ferns and that such abuse could not happen in their diocese. However, it can happen anywhere. We should not say it cannot happen because we know it can. I firmly believe that the investigation must be nationwide and that is the only way to go forward. Irrespective of the cost, we should investigate the abuse and make sure the perpetrators of it in the church know there is no hiding place for them anymore and that they must face the full rigours of the law like everybody else in Irish society.

To follow up on comments made last week in the other House, I repeat my earlier comments that the church plays a very important role in all our lives. It is an important structure of society. It represents the beliefs and the social views of the majority of the population on this island. It should not be dismissed any more than we would dismiss the trade unions, the farmers' organisations, the GAA or any other sports organisations. We should not cut off all our links with the church. Happily we have moved on and the State and the arms of Government do not have the same link with the church that they had 20 or 30 years ago and society is all the better for that. The church is an integral part of all our lives and mostly that is to the good of society.

I agree with Senator O'Toole's point that we must ensure that the Stay Safe programme is introduced in all our schools. There were times when I felt that if I had a gun I could shoot those people who tried to block the introduction of such programmes. That was wrong, but sadly people like me were in a minority. I hope people like me are now in the majority and that people will open the doors and allow those programmes to be taught.

The church has a great need to change. Senator O'Toole said it may be time for the church to grow up. Perhaps "grow up" is the right term. There is room for change in the church. I was saddened a few months ago to note that when the Irish bishops met, the issue of celibacy was not to be discussed. It was pointed out that there was no need to examine the issue of whether priests should marry. We would be a far better church if we were to allow our priests marry. To have a physical sexual relationship with a member of one's opposite gender is the most human natural feeling. Why should priests and nuns not enjoy all the trappings that go with such a relationship?

I want to refer to the silence from Rome on this issue. It is sickening to the core that this issue was not mentioned. I am partly of the view that perhaps as a small State on the periphery of Europe our church is too small to be considered in this context and that perhaps Pope Benedict has not even thought about us. From visiting Italy and observing the vast wealth of the Italian church, I am aware that Ireland does not measure up to that wealth. The mother church in Rome owes it to those of us who are Catholic, whether mediocre or good practising Catholics, and more so to the victims of clerical abuse to apologise and speak about the issue of abuse. If the church is not going to say "sorry", at least it should recognise the Ferns Report and the level of political debate taking place here as a result of it.

The Vatican can issue statements on gay relationships and IVF treatment, to name but two issues. I am saddened when the church in Rome bashes those types of issues, yet it has very little to say on an issue which has appalled all right-thinking people. This is not a question of bashing our church — nobody wants to do that. We are all proud to belong to the church, but as politicians we must be able to say to the church that it is time for it to change. Society has changed immensely in the past ten years. We acknowledge that every day we meet, whether discussing economic or social change. The church must also change.

I went on-line after the publication of the Ferns Report to note what the ISPCC had to say on it. I was interested to note it indicated it would put great pressure on politicians to make sure that we legislate to implement the recommendations of the report. It also referred to the need to legislate against silence and that is very true. We really need to do that. We must make it a crime for a person who knows a child has been abused to keep that information to himself or herself because the person does not want to get involved. I hate the term "whistleblower", but people who have such information should reveal it. We who have power should make it a crime for people with such knowledge to conceal it.

We need Garda vetting of staff and volunteers who work with children. That should be part of the legislation on this area. We must legislate to ensure that where people are known to be a risk to children, they must never under any circumstances, regardless of the number of years in which they are in remission, be allowed work with children in the future.