Maurice Hayes (Independent)

I also welcome the Taoiseach and thank him for his efforts as regards the European Presidency and the developments that have taken place. I thank him, too, for his kind remarks concerning the National Forum on Europe.

Following on from something Senator McDowell said, the forum does not claim any monopoly on the discussion. I would worry if it were to be given a type of monopolistic position in this debate or if people were to take the view that these matters were being discussed within the National Forum on Europe and not necessarily anywhere else. At best, the forum sees itself as a catalyst and, perhaps, an energiser or facilitator. It is important that the debate should be carried on more widely through society and by people who are sceptical about Europe just as much as those who are not.

I congratulate Senator McDowell on the thoughtful nature of his contribution. It is the type of contribution we need. It is not a question of us all being cheerleaders or whatever but of our examining the real difficulties that arise and the importance of dealing with them. I detect no sizeable or even sensible body of opinion in favour of leaving the European Union, although there are different views about how it should be run. My view is that membership of the EU has enabled us to find ourselves as a nation. By pooling a small degree of sovereignty we suddenly found ourselves as a nation psychologically and economically. This has been extremely helpful with regard to developments in Northern Ireland in that Britain and Ireland are equal partners. The Taoiseach has recognised and utilised this development and I congratulate him on his efforts in this regard.

As Senator McDowell noted, one of the problems facing us is that a generation has grown up not knowing what it was like not to be a member of the European Union, just as a generation has grown up which does not know what it is like to be poor. Every now and again we need to plug into reality. My main concern about the European Union has always been the likelihood of apathy developing.

As chairman of the National Forum on Europe, I do not often involve myself in policy decisions but I wish to touch on two or three decisions. I agree that Turkish accession to the European Union will be extremely difficult to digest and will be a long, slow process that will require a great deal of adjustment on both sides. Nevertheless, having begun the process, it must continue not only on behalf of Turkey and the European Union but because it creates a bridge to the Islamic world.

I am rather closer to Senator Quinn's position on the Common Agricultural Policy than that of the Taoiseach. The major social change taking place in Europe must be managed. The impact of our actions on the developing world, particularly Africa, is of such importance as to require that we address the issue of the Common Agricultural Policy.

On another point raised by Senator McDowell, if we are to sustain current economic growth, we will need approximately 70,000 to 80,000 people to come here in each of the next ten years. While some of these will be returning Irish people, many more of them will not be Irish. It is vital, therefore, that we begin to address the other side of this equation, namely, how to accommodate this group of people who can and will contribute to society not only in terms of their labour but also the richness of the cultural experience they bring with them.

I congratulate the Taoiseach and his officials on the White Paper on the European Constitution which has just arrived on my desk. I took a cursory look at the document which is bright, readable and mercifully free from jargon. It is important that the Taoiseach, all political parties and all organs of civil society sustain the debate on the importance of engaging with Europe, the nature of that engagement and where it is leading Ireland. I thank the Taoiseach for coming before the House and congratulate him on his work.