Derek McDowell (Labour)

I welcome the Taoiseach and thank him for taking the time to come before the House to spend a couple of hours with us.

Others have made the point that we need to sell the European Union more. I guess we must do so but I suspect I am more sanguine on this than others who have spoken. I do not believe we can reasonably expect to fill town halls throughout the country, out of context, as it were, with people mad to learn something new about the European Union. The citizenry will never be filling the streets with flags and balloons, saying how great the European Union is. In Ireland, the European Union's greatest success is the fact that people take it for granted and that it is part of our democratic architecture. Nobody in this country, in politics or civil society generally, seriously suggests that we could or should leave the European Union. That is a fantastic measure of success in terms of the Union.

This is not to say that we should not have a debate and neither should we take it for granted. However, we have it within us to get a "Yes" vote on the European constitution. Naturally, if we put referendums to the people every two or three years there will be a "No" result every now and then. I have said before that if the people of Kerry are repeatedly asked whether they want to remain part of the Republic of Ireland, sooner or later there will be a "No" vote. If it is a bad day and people are feeling grumpy or have lost an all-Ireland, there will be a "No" vote. I do not want to dismiss it but, nonetheless, we cannot expect to put the same question to the people over and over and expect them to get it right every time.

I want to say something about Turkey. Broadly speaking, I welcome the decision of the Council but with some reservation and not a great amount of enthusiasm. I appreciate that the motivation of the Austrians was not entirely pure but they did us some service in making the point that, essentially, this is a two-way thing. The people of Turkey and their political taskmasters obviously want to make a decision as to whether they want to be part of the European Union. It is a something the rest of us must also consider. There is a very real question as to whether we can absorb Turkey. If it is a matter of today or tomorrow, the answer must be that we cannot. The political, cultural and social differences are just too great. Turkey is just too big and too poor. The difficulties that would arise if the EU was to try to absorb Turkey tomorrow are too great. It would cause the Union, as it currently exists, to founder.

Whether that can alter over a period of ten years of negotiation and change within Turkey is another matter. Very possibly it can do so but we have to at least consider the possibility that perhaps it will not. In ten years, people in France, Austria, Denmark, the Netherlands or Ireland might actually not be willing to take that step. The Austrians have at least done us a service by flagging this issue and it is important that we should acknowledge that possibility. A year or two ago I would have argued that we should, perhaps, take the Austrian route and say that privileged partnership is the way to go. I visited Turkey last year and one cannot ignore the fact that anyone of a liberal mind there wants to cling to the notion of EU membership. They feel this quite strongly and are of the view that it is an essential part of making progress within their own country. I do not believe it is possible for us to abandon those people, namely, Prime Minister Erdogan and many others. We met, for example, women's groups, trade unions, people in business, a full range of people with political views as well as people from Kurdistan and elsewhere. One cannot ignore the fact that anyone of a progressive mind in Turkey wants to be part of the European Union and sees membership of it as being an essential anchor towards making progress. I came away feeling that we could not abandon them. We should not pretend, either to them or ourselves, that the process will be easy because clearly it will not.

I want to deal briefly with Romania and Bulgaria. If they are not exactly on the fast-track towards EU membership, at least they have only a short time to go. There is some speculation that they may not be ready. If they are not ready, they are not. If this means they have to delay for another year or two, then it is better that they do so. It is necessary for the rest of the Union and for them to be absolutely sure. If one looks at the experience in the aftermath of the Bulgarian election and what has happened there in the past year, it is clear that progress has still to be made and matters should not be rushed. We should not bring them in too early.

Similarly, I want to make a point about Croatia. It has been somewhat worrying during the past year or so, looking at the machinations on the margins of the Hague and the war crimes tribunal there. It is as though compliance with the requirements of the tribunal has become a moveable feast. One day Croatia is meeting the requirements and the next day it is not. One cannot escape the conclusion that judgment on whether it is meeting the requirements varies, depending on who is asking the questions. That is simply not good enough. We need to send a clear message to Serbia and Montenegro to the effect that we require full compliance with the requirements of the Hague tribunal.

The Leas-Chathaoirleach has indicated that I have one minute left. I am sorry about that because I wanted to make a point that is relevant to this country. When the Union enlarged, we were told — and most of us believed — that there would not be a large influx of people from eastern Europe, tens or hundreds of thousands of people coming here to work. We were wrong. The fact is that there have been approximately 100,000 or so immigrants from the Baltic states and Poland, principally during the past year. This poses serious questions for us, to which we do not yet have answers. To be honest, we do not know what the questions are either. We do not know how many want to stay or how many will come here for two years and go away, hopefully with a pocket full of euro to make better lives for themselves in their home countries. We do not, therefore, know whether we must cater for a transient population of migrant workers or begin to assimilate a long-term population that will stay here. I suggest that we must work on the basis that at least some of these people — even only 10% of them, which is still a significant number — will stay here and transform the manner in which we do things so that they can be assimilated and that they, in turn, assimilate. The evidence so far, purely anecdotal, is that they do not assimilate. It suggests that we are, in fact, getting little Polish communities in different parts of this city. I find that worrying. We are very much in the early stages of this experience and it is new to us. The first stage in dealing with it is to be aware of it. That much at least we should take on board. I again thank the Taoiseach for coming before the House.